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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134009
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 1
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If I intended to name names, I would have named names.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
Sabretooth wasn't "goodified" in X-Men recently. He was blackmailed into helping the X-Men on a specific mission via nano-sentinels and tried to kill the X-Men as soon as he was able to. In fact, Mike Carey specifically stated he wasn't interested in showing Sabretooth in any sort of heroic light or even to redeem him. |
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Still, they murdered people to save Sabertooth's life and they didn't hand him over to the authorities even though they are surrounded by the military 24/7 now. So all in all, the plots are still "a big bunch of random sensationalistic nonsense I made up without much follow through".
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 3
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QUOTE:
However the story ultimately turned out....the idea of heroes working with a carachter as out and out evil as Sabretooth, or any of a number of examples, is just plain bad writing. |
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If nothing else, it's a bit too close to Lobo being in L.E.G.I.O.N.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134009
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 4
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I'm so old I remember when fans used to complain about how Marvel villains "always" turned into good guys -- pointing to Hawkeye, who was never a villain in the first place.
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Pascal LISE Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 July 2006 Location: France Posts: 1111
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm so old I remember the new guy in town drawing Iron Fist when I wanted
Gil Kane.
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Andrew Hess Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9846
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 6
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I am SO glad I stopped paying attention to the X-Men back in the 80s. Early
80s at that.
Some of the info I've read here makes my teeth hurt.
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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 7
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Marvel villains "always" turned into good guys -- pointing to Hawkeye, who was never a villain in the first place.
This made me think of how cool it was when characters (including Wolverine) were introduced 'in the old days': usually popping up during an exciting story, with the reader intrigued about a) the motivation of said new character, and b) what might possibly happen next.
Today's books simply suck in that regard, but that's just me <g>.
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Michael Huber Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 August 2007 Location: United States Posts: 3338
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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I'm so old I remember when fans used to complain about how Marvel villains "always" turned into good guys -- pointing to Hawkeye, who was never a villain in the first place.
Black Widow, Swordsman, Wanda and Pietro, Wonderman, Hulk (?), etc...
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Scott McKeeve Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 11 November 2007 Posts: 835
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 9
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"I'm so old I remember when fans used to complain about how Marvel villains "always" turned into good guys -- pointing to Hawkeye, who was never a villain in the first place."
"I'm so old I remember the new guy in town drawing Iron Fist when I wanted Gil Kane."
Okay, you both win. I'm glad I'm not that old. This was turning in the direction of a Monty Python sketch. "Luxury!"
I actually enjoy a rependant villain if it makes sense for the character and it's presented in a truthful manner. Miller's Gladiator did this supremely well where you saw the grief, guilt and actual paralyzing remorse that was visited upon the him because of his violent past.
You can easily make the case that Magneto is not a villain at all. But it's been clearly demonstrated that his goals and Xavier's goals are at such cross purposes that they would never be able to work together barring some catastrophic event. The "Days Of Future Past" storyline illustrated an example of this. The literal end of the world. "A Man cannot serve two masters."
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Bradley Dean Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United States Posts: 538
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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I do wish that X-Men comics weren't so confusing as they are right now. I used to be able to take a break from the X-Men, come back and not be completly lost. Now when I pick up an issue its so different, and even between all of the titles, it feels like completly different teams (in some cases I know they actually are) Are the Sentinals still standing at the X-Mansion?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134009
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 11
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You can easily make the case that Magneto is not a villain at all.
•••
Aside from the mass-murderer part, you mean?
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36233
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Posted: 10 December 2007 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 12
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Same with Mystique. Same with The White Queen. Not murderers on the scale of Magneto, but murderers nonetheless and neither of which should ever be a member of the X-Men.
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