Still, they murdered people to save Sabertooth's life and they didn't hand him over to the authorities even though they are surrounded by the military 24/7 now. So all in all, the plots are still "a big bunch of random sensationalistic nonsense I made up without much follow through".

QUOTE: However the story ultimately turned out....the idea of heroes working with a carachter as out and out evil as Sabretooth, or any of a number of examples, is just plain bad writing.

If nothing else, it's a bit too close to Lobo being in L.E.G.I.O.N.

Marvel villains "always" turned into good guys -- pointing to Hawkeye, who was never a villain in the first place.

This made me think of how cool it was when characters (including Wolverine) were introduced 'in the old days': usually popping up during an exciting story, with the reader intrigued about a) the motivation of said new character, and b) what might possibly happen next.

Today's books simply suck in that regard, but that's just me <g>.

I'm so old I remember when fans used to complain about how Marvel villains "always" turned into good guys -- pointing to Hawkeye, who was never a villain in the first place.

Black Widow, Swordsman, Wanda and Pietro, Wonderman, Hulk (?), etc...

"I'm so old I remember when fans used to complain about how Marvel villains "always" turned into good guys -- pointing to Hawkeye, who was never a villain in the first place."

"I'm so old I remember the new guy in town drawing Iron Fist when I wanted
Gil Kane."

Okay, you both win. I'm glad I'm not that old. This was turning in the direction of a Monty Python sketch. "Luxury!"

I actually enjoy a rependant villain if it makes sense for the character and it's presented in a truthful manner. Miller's Gladiator did this supremely well where you saw the grief, guilt and actual paralyzing remorse that was visited upon the him because of his violent past.

You can easily make the case that Magneto is not a villain at all. But it's been clearly demonstrated that his goals and Xavier's goals are at such cross purposes that they would never be able to work together barring some catastrophic event. The "Days Of Future Past" storyline illustrated an example of this. The literal end of the world. "A Man cannot serve two masters."