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Topic: Whatever happened to the X-Men? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 1  

Probably -- tho not necessarily any better!
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 2  

If it means anything your run on AWC is my favorite take of good guy Magneto. I liked that he had done very bad things and he wanted to change. Rather than the normal "Oh he was never bad to begin with. He was a freedom fighter."

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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 3  

I'll take even the earlier, allegedly less nuanced versions of Magneto by Stan Lee and Roy Thomas over so-called multi-dimensional versions.  He works best as a would-be despot and hate-mongerer.

Edited by Paulo Pereira on 14 December 2007 at 12:10pm
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 4  

X-Men 112 and 113(Byrne/Austin) were the last appearance of Magneto as far as I am concerned
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Jason Schulman
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 5  

Magneto can be a complete villain, and still be multi-dimensional. It's just lazy writing that requires an easier path.

I don't think what Claremont did to Magneto was "lazy writing" so much as completely ill-thought-out writing. The background he gave Magneto would've been great for some other, completely new character. Just not for Magneto!
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 6  

Problem is, when most people say this they mean they want characters who are
conflicted, confused, misunderstood.

In my comics reading (and other media as well), I always preferred characters who were confident, in control, and heroic (an example would be Silver Age Superman).

Many folk today consider those types of characters boring, but not me <g>.

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Larry Morris
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 7  

 
<<Its not self defense. But Magneto had just that much wiggle room. Magneto had not yet attacked innocents directly. He said he would not if his demands were met.>>

Yeah, if you allow him to rule the world.  Is that what they were supposed to do so he wouldn't kill people? 

<<If I remember the story right. The other nations had told the commies not to attack Magneto til they decided on a course of action. At least until they could get ahold of the Avengers. But the Russians out of fear of superhumans wanted to take out Magneto themselves and escalated the conflict.>>

It has been a long while since I read the book, but the Russians logically would be moe anxious than the others.  They're the ones whose city was destroyed.  

<<Magneto's position would be if they had not attacked him, they would not be dead. >>

And their positon would be, if you hadn't held the world hostage we wouldn't have attacked you.

<<Thats not to say he is right. But the story definately painted the commies in a negative light, with the position they had it coming.>>

They had it coming? I don't recall that, but, again, it's been awhile since I read it.  Maybe I'll look at the book again.  Another thing, you have to consider Magneto's history up until that point.  He has a history of terrorist actions.  There is plenty of reason for them to believe that he's not bluffing.  

It's not like it's been verbal threats coming from a new character.  This guy has destroyed a city telling you that the next time it'll be a populated one if you don't meet his demands.   

I can give you some examples of Magneto doing "bad" things where I can somewhat see his position, killing Zaladane would be an example. I don't see this as one of those examples.

You mentioned JB's AWC and for people who don't think he can write Magneto as more complex, read that.  Most of that is the Avengers attacking him because Wanda went with him willingly.  He actually saves Iron Man once and tries to another time.  But that's how the character had been established at the time.

Hidden Years Magneto was a rat bastard which should have been no problem to even Claremont Magneto fans.  JB portrayed him as he was portrayed at the time, as an evil bastard.
 
<<I especially liked how Magneto recovered from being a cripple hit with an atom bomb within 2 issues, build a whole fake prison program in China to fake he was a prisoner because HE KNEW ALL ALONG the X-Men would just HAPPEN to rescue him. Then somehow engineered Weapon X out of his old Satelite M or w/e his space station's called, PLANNED ALL ALONG for Jean and Wolverine to be in it so he could HURL THEM RIGHT INTO THE SUN HAHAHA, then have Jean be stabbed to death, sent into the sun, resurect herself AND Wolverine AND rebuild the whole damn shuttle AND being herself back with Logan & Shuttle ALL THE WAY BACK to earth only to suddenly die from 10 000 heart strokes from Magneto like he had become some god damn Street Fighter character or some crap. Cause Jean can recover from being sent into the sun but heart failure and that's it. Bites the dust forever.

And Magneto's explanation was Morrison's one trick pony since Doom Patrol: nanotechnology omg. So all in all, Grant's Magneto was a big load of YES I PLANNED IT ALL ALONG NO MATTER HOW NONSENSICAL HAHAHAHAHAHAH! bullshit.>>

Oh, the plotting was contrived all right, but I do think that he planned Xorn as Magneto all along.
 
 
<<Morrison having Cyclops euthanize somebody was enough for me to steer clear.>>

Didn't like it, but I could get past it.  Having him commit adultery on his wife was where they stopped getting my money.  I dropped every X book on the spot.

<<In my comics reading (and other media as well), I always preferred characters who were confident, in control, and heroic (an example would be Silver Age Superman).

Many folk today consider those types of characters boring, but not me <g>.>>

Same here, but often times I think we're a dying breed.  They're superHERO comics.  If I want a mishmosh of greys I'll turn on the tv or read the paper.  The real world is filled with that.  That's not what I read superhero comics for. 
 

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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 8  

If you're asking what acts each of us, individually, could never forgive someone for, I'd bet that each person here would have completely different answers.

••

Which is why I asked. . . .


Got it. Like I said, me, personally, I'm not going to pal around with someone who tortured or tormented me at any point in my past. I think it's actually a bit weird that Peter Parker stayed in touch with Flash Thompson one second past high school graduation, let alone asking the guy to be best man at his wedding, but I'm sure we've all had friendships and various other relationships completely change over time, sometimes over a single incident.

If someone were to blow up my hometown, whether everyone had evacuated it or not, I probably wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt the next time I saw him.
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 9  

Larry im not disputing it. But Claremont definately put the commies in a negative light. The other countries wanted to wait til the Avengers were avaiable and stall Magneto to avoid loss of life. The commies were overzealous and paid for it. The story certainly showed them more as victims of their own arrogance than Magneto. If they had waited for the Avengers they would still be alive.



Edited by Victor .R. Rodgers on 14 December 2007 at 2:28pm
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 10  

That's not what I read superhero comics for. 

I agree. I personally look to comics for escapism and entertainment, to make me forget about the problems and horrors of the 'real' world <g>.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 11  

Claremont definately put the commies in a negative light. The other
countries wanted to wait til the Avengers were avaiable and stall Magneto
to avoid loss of life. The commies were overzealous and paid for it. The
story certainly showed them more as victims of their own arrogance than
Magneto. If they had waited for the Avengers they would still be alive.

••

Or Magneto -- based on his previous established behavior -- could have
decided he'd waited long enough and started blowing up inhabited cities.

Neville Chamberlain came home with a piece of paper from Adolf Hitler
that said Germany was going to behave itself and not got launching
unprovoked attacks on neighboring countries. Look how well that turned
out!

Nothing Magneto had been seen doing in his past exploits afforded any
reason to trust him. And, as noted, inhabited or not, he had launched an
unprovoked attack upon a Russian city. if you want to play the "war" card
-- which, as I have noted, is invalid in any case -- destroying a city is an
act of war. When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the US response
was not to say "Let's wait and see what they do next!"
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 14 December 2007 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 12  

I just took it as stalling for time til the Avengers were ready. But I understand why the Russians attacked Magneto. Even though it was foolish and accomplished nothing.
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