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Topic: Cyclops in "Messiah Complex" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 1  

The Onion AV Club has straight-up, serious interviews with people, same as...I dunno, People, Playboy or Rolling Stone would. What's so complicated about that?
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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | 2  


 QUOTE:
Out of curiosity-- how does someone without powers dodge light-speed optic blasts which Cyclops aims by looking?  These same blasts were used at a lower power level to tear a Trask Sentinel to pieces.  If the writer played fairly with this idea, Cyclops cannot miss and can blast through almost anything she hides behind.

Unless he has X-Ray vision, he has to know where she is. Why not give Storm a gun at this point, have both characters stand in front of each other and determine who should be boss? His optic blast is just a natural weapon he has. It doesn't automatically give him the edge over everyone and everything.

I don't have any real life fighting skills, but you can defeat players who use boosted characters in most video games with a crappy character if you truly have skills and know what you're doing. Raw power isn't everything!

 



Edited by Martin Redmond on 05 November 2007 at 3:19pm
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | 3  

Also, he needs the visor to control the force of the beam, which takes time.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 4  

 Al Cook wrote:
I'm just saying I reject the notion of the Onion AV Club being a reputable
source of any information.

Different editorial staff.  Different writers.  Saying you can't accept as fact that the Onion AV club does anything seriously or question their veracity is like saying you can't accept that a porn magazine can do serious interviews with political figures and on topical issues. Doesn't make sense.

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Jason Powell
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 5  

"yet divorced it completely from the delivery, tone, and context which he
intended."

I don't see how any tone or context would've saved it. I guess maybe if it was
a Buffy-type character, but a wisecrack like that doesn't really make sense
for Storm. They should've just cut the line.
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Keith Elder
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 6  

Are we sure Cyclop's optic blasts travel at the speed of light?  If it's a type of concussive blast, it could be argued it would travel at the speed of sound.

Still not something you're going to dodge, but...
 
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Zaki Hasan
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 7  

They should've just cut the line.

******

Pretty sure Joss would agree with you.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 8  

I will play Devil's Advocate and defend the "you're a dick line" in that if that scene had been in Angel with Angel trying to determine whether Spike is the actual Spike, it would have worked without undercutting Angel as a character. We know that Spike thinks Angel is a dick and that's a pretty quick means of alerting Angel to the fact that this is the genuine article (as a fake Spike wouldn't know the status of their relationship).

This might have been the intent with the Cyclops/Wolverine exchange. I think the big problem with that was that it might not have worked for those characters. Worse, because of the poor casting and writing for Cyclops, the audience's sympathies were with Wolverine. When the audience thinks Cyclops is a dick and that Jean should be with the much cooler Wolverine, there's a serious problem. Of course, that problem is unfortunately not unique to the movies.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 9  

Unless he has X-Ray vision, he has to know where she is. Why not give Storm a gun at this point, have both characters stand in front of each other and determine who should be boss? His optic blast is just a natural weapon he has. It doesn't automatically give him the edge over everyone and everything.

I don't have any real life fighting skills, but you can defeat players who use boosted characters in most video games with a crappy character if you truly have skills and know what you're doing. Raw power isn't everything!

***

If Storm ambushed Cyclops so that he never got to see her and release his blasts, I can see her winning. 

But once they have anything like a "fight" Cyclops has to win over a depowered Storm IF (and that's a big "if") the writer is playing by what's been established for these characters.  Cyclops has stood alone against Sentinels -- saying "Raw power isn't everything" has no relevance.  Cyclops is highly trained AND equipped with something far more powerful than any gun. 

The idea that Cyclops' blasts could travel any less than light speed means that you would see them hit you before they hit you-- it seems unlikely to me.  I've never seen it established how fast they travel, but they must be many times the speed of sound to do some of the things he's done. 

Having him lose to a depowered Storm smells like a writer trying to force something that shouldn't happen. The idea that someone retconned it so Scott was actually held back in the fight by mind-control sounds like an attempt to fix.




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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 10  

Cyclops was the X-Men's leader for years before that issue. He trained Storm and the others in strategy, fighting style, etc. He supervised countless Danger Room sessions. With powers, maybe she could have hit him with a lightning bolt or something, but without powers there's no way she should have beaten him. He should have been able to anticipate her moves.
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Gregg Halecki
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 11  

Has it not been established in virtually all of the fights that Cyclops has been in that he CAN and DOES in fact miss his target often? Yes he does have incredibly good aim and has an uncanny skill at geometry (take the pool sceen from the X-Man/Titans book as an example) but hitting moving and DODGING targets is something else.

I never got the rational behind the idea that he hits whatever he looks at. I have never seen anything to support that, other than the extrapolation from the fact that he shoots from his eyes and therefore the beams go where he looks. Faulty logic. Just like saying that Dazzler can't "miss" when she points at something (and we KNOW that her beams travel at the sped of light because they ARE light).

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Jason Powell
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Posted: 05 November 2007 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 12  

"there's no way she should have beaten him. He should have been able to
anticipate her moves."

This was the point. The strong implication at the time was that Cyclops'
head was no longer in the game, and his losing the duel was the proof of
that. Until the ret-con, of course.
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