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Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9846
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| Posted: 06 November 2007 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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JB said: ". . . the Big Two have had an annoying habit lately of
wanting the covers months in advance of the issues being done."
*************
Not the only ones. I'm working on a book for foreign publishers, and we told them months ago that we will just be able to meet their March 1 deadline to getting the book files to the printers.
Earlier today they asked if we might happen to have a cover ready for them . . . 5 months before the deadline.
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Greg Cordier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 579
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| Posted: 06 November 2007 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 2
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A possible new cover for issue one? More JB coloring fun! Woo Hoo!
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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 06 November 2007 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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All these FX goodies makes me wonder how long it will be before other people than Wayne starts commissioning FX pieces by JB.
Wayne do you realise what kind of snowball you may have started? ;)
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Wayne Osborne
Byrne Robotics Member
Manhunter
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Posts: 3817
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| Posted: 06 November 2007 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 4
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I've never really thought about that, Joakim. But it would be cool if others
liked the comic enough to get an FX commission from John. Although, I
think I'd probably feel a little jealous about that too.
WO
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Frank Balkin
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Joined: 17 August 2004
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Posts: 141
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| Posted: 06 November 2007 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | 5
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John - curious to hear your thoughts - why do the "Big Two" obsess about covers being done months in advance, when clearly they don't obsess about the actual BOOKS being done IN TIME, let alone "in advance"? I don't get it. Is the idea "We need to have something to run with a solicitation, but f--k it whether the book will actually ship when we promise it will or not."?
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Joakim Jahlmar
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Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 5:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Judging from what I've seen visually so far, I would definitely say that there's room for FX on my own personal wishlist... if I ever get the money and space to start playing the commissioning game. But there are a few pieces on that list by now, with the original Defenders being at the very top.
As for the jealousy, Wayne, I guess it would be a case of seeing your kids really growing up and moving out of the house. But to stick with the kid analogy, I guess one could say that it would also be a very good sign that you "raised them right." ;)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 7
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…why do the "Big Two" obsess about covers being done months in
advance, when clearly they don't obsess about the actual BOOKS being
done IN TIME, let alone "in advance"?
••
Once upon a time, American comics thrived (as in sales approaching ten
times the current market) with no more promotion than house ads that
announced what was on sale that month. "Did You Enjoy
this Issue? Then Be Sure to Pick Up _____________, NOW ON SALE!"
Then came the Direct Sales Market and -- worse -- the shift to the DSM
as the principal and even sole venue. The DSM was the breeding ground
of the speculators, and the speculators want to know in advance if an
issue will be "worth getting". "Worth getting" no longer defined as "cool
story and art", but as "who did it, what event is in it, will it appreciate
greatly over the price I pay for it?"
Most of the people currently running the companies, large and small,
were introduced to the hobby in this environment. They think of this
relentless pandering and exploitation as business as usual. So they want
to fan those speculation fires further and further in advance, in the hopes
of inspiring more people to speculate on the product, or, at least, inspire
the same people to speculate (ie buy) even more.
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Greg Reeves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 February 2006
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Posts: 1396
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 8
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It's great to get these insights into the business, JB, so thanks for that. I didn't realize how much the DSM has negatively affected the industry. I was pretty sure, and still feel I think, that the quality of writing is so much better now than it was in the early 90's when speculation exploded (though it seems it will never be as good as the 70's and 80's again). I thought the only clue of the continued influence of speculation was the predominantly pin-up style covers. The stories within don't seem as empty as they were in the 90's (at least to me).
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 9
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There are some good writers working. And some good artists. And when they are firing on all cylinders, the quality of theproduct can approach what our nostalgia tells us comics used to be like.Problem is, whatever stories those writers may be working on are of no consequence to the Powers That Be. Not, that is, unless those stories can somehow be turned into an "event". I go back to Dark Phoenix. As you know, Chris and I were forced to change the ending of our original tale, as a result of which the Death of Phoenix became an "event" against which, it sometimes seems, all else has been measured since. But we were not plotting an "event". We were just crafting the very best story we could come up with. Imagine, tho, that story in the modern environment. If the X-Men populated a score of books, and the Death of Phoenix "event" had to be spread thru all those titles (and perhaps a few others), and over at least six months, perhaps a year. Imagine, too, if there were rags like WIZARD out there, eager to "promote" the storyline with every spoiler they could lay their hands on. So that by the time Phoenix died, it was old, old news, and "predictable" (to use the word I encounted so often when I first came online.) Or, from another vantage, imagine that Chris and I had been left alone in the construction of our story but halfway into it the Powers That Were announced that there was going to be a crossover thru all the books for two months in a row, and whatever we were doing had to be reshaped to fit into that crossover. (We came close to this, in fact, with the introduction of the Dazzler. Chris and I had plotted a two issue arc introducing Kitty Pryde. Unbeknownst to us, the Powers were off to one side creating a character intended to cash in on the Disco craze -- because, you know, music works so well in comics! -- and somewhere along the way those Powers had decided the new character would be a mutant, and so introduced thru UNCANNY X-MEN. Our two parter became a three parter, and a totally superfluous character was wedged into the events.) Stories that have to be spread over multiple issues of multiple titles. Or "written for the trade". Or shaped to tie in with the latest stunt. How can even the best writers do what used to be done, when they have that kind of lunacy to deal with?
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Brian Hunt
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 10
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Good points JB. The big events were less intrusive when they came around every few years. Now it seems like they are every six months and it's just too much. Too many trips to the same place.
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Joakim Jahlmar
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Joined: 10 October 2005
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Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 11
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I agree with your analysis of the impossiblity to produce consistent quality work under thos terms, JB.
I must admit that I have enjoyed my share of events back in the day, but I think that was still just before the event ceased to be an event and became the norm. That's not to say that there were events back then that weren't low quality already, of course. I think the key to a good "event" is rather something that grows out of the stories and writers/artists wishes to collaborate (or at least written and drawn in such a quality that result comes across as such).
Similarly, while enjoying lengthy arcs, I have to say ones more that the "written for the trade" symptom is a great scam. As stated, I can really enjoy an lengthy arc, but then it should be because the story elements are needed and continually advances the story (just like a good lengthy novel). The "written for the trade" symptom equlas diluted, watered down stories that have been stretched beyond imaging and in the end feels less like a lengthy arc than one or two issues streched over a year. MUCH less story for my money in other words.
Compare this to JB's well crafted tales in X-Men, FF and Namor, Simonson's Thor or Miller's Daredevil (just to mention a few off the top of my head), where the use of subplots actually generated lengthier arcs in a much more truthful sense, even though the chapters were often much more self-contained.
Ah well... FX does give a poor boy hope for something good coming in next year. And may that last for a long time. :)
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Jacob Reyn
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Joined: 02 April 2006
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| Posted: 07 November 2007 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 12
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I think of that decade as Marvel's age of the Pheonix because of your pioneering effort on the X-Men books that appeared to bring about a small revolution in the industry. Maybe someday that Pheonix will rise again, but it will probably be because of kids reading a comic monitor instead of a comic magazine at the present rate of the company's progress and society in it's modernization.
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