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Richard Franck Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 September 2007 Location: France Posts: 570
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 2:10am | IP Logged | 1
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The Planet Hulk serie and the topic about Aquaman reminds me of a few pages drawn by JR JR (I think) that Marvel published a while back around the mid 80's, with characters being classified according to their level of strength. I will post it as soon as I find it back. The groups were the following (as I remember, I haven't seen these pages for 15 years at least ...):
- Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Wonderman, Hercules, Namor
- Sasquatch, The Thing, Thundra, Black Bolt, Vision, Doc Samson
- Colossus, Powerman, Giant Man (Foster), Spiderman, Ghost Rider, She Hulk, Silver Surfer (!!!)
- the Beast, Wundar, Captain Britain, Werewolf, Moonknight (under a full moon, after being bitten by the Werewolf), ...
- Captain America, DD, Wolverine, ...
I remember being surprised by this, especially the fact that the Silver Surfer was featured in a list based on strength level. Except the battle with the Abomination, I have never seen the SS using pure strength.
Even if it could be fun to create a table via Excel and make such a classification by taking into account the data collected in the Marvel powergrid (strength, durability, fighting skills, ...), I agree with some people here who will think these "study" is too scientific, as it doesn't take into account the motivation of the character in a battle : we all remember Doc Samson being able to handle pretty well against Wonderman, Namor and Iron Man in the Hulk issue 316 drawn by JB, whereas the Doc is not as strong as the other ones.
Please give me your opinon about the classification above, and in which category you will put the characters (and other ones such as the Sentry, Miss Marvel, ...) some 20 years later.
I don't remember such a list being released by DC comics,anyone can help ?
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Brad Teschner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 3933
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 2
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I would think that She-Hulk would be up in level 2.
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Richard Franck Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 September 2007 Location: France Posts: 570
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 3:10am | IP Logged | 3
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I was pretty well surprised to find She Hulk playing in the same league as Spiderman (level 3). I would say she is a bit less strong than the Thing, but she deserves to be in level 2 imo.
But you could say the same for Colossus and Powerman, I think they are a bit tougher than Spidey ...
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 3:40am | IP Logged | 4
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Namor most definetely was in the second group. The top group consisted of only the other 5 guys.
There were some reasoning to the listed categories, but I agree She-Hulk, Colossus and the Surfer belong to the second group. Sasquatch probably in the first.
Powerman is easily weaker than Spider-Man, I think.
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Anthony Wallis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 72
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 5
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On reading through a few other threads on the JB forum it seems that some think it limits the scope of writers when they know exactly how strong or powerful a character is, I agree to some extent but it was always fascinating for me as a kid to know who could bench press more then the other guy.
Richard: In the listing you give I think there should be a range between 3 and 4 for Powerman and Spider-man. I would see them around the 5-20 ton mark, with Colossus and She-Hulk remaining at 3 in the 75-80 ton range. I also think Silver Surfer could potentially be stronger than Colossus and She-Hulk, he's drawing a portion of Galactus' powers after all. Sentry would certainly be in the 1st group. What do you think?
The Marvel RPG from the 80's gave us an interesting adjective led range, and while I do not remember exactly how they worked, they possibly allow some room for writers to have a character do something amazing and reach beyond what would be expected:-
(I add in my own examples as I can't quite remember who came where!)
Feeble - (Aunt May, Franklin Richards) Poor - Typical - (average human, J. J. Jameson, Susan Storm) Good - (Daredevil, Iron Fist, Hawkeye) Excellent - (Peak human, Captain America, Wolverine, Black Panther) Remarkable - (Powerman, Beast, Moonknight) Incredible - (Spider-man, Puma) Amazing - (Colossus, She-Hulk) Monstrous - (Thing, Sasquatch, Ironman, Wonderman, Namor) Unearthly - (Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Sentry)
Hmm, seems to be a leap between incredible and amazing!
Ant
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12567
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 6
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Is Wonderman really as strong as Thor without his hammer?
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Armindo Macieira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 955
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 6:21am | IP Logged | 7
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He traded blows with Thor and stood his ground, way back in the beggining of his "career".
I guess not AS strong but almost...
Edited by Armindo Macieira on 25 October 2007 at 6:22am
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Greg Reeves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 February 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1396
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 7:21am | IP Logged | 8
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Power-Man was in the 1-3 ton category, definitely a level 2 (Spider-Man is 10 ton range I believe). I think Colossus was comparable to Sasquatch, and Iron Man was considerably lower than the range for Thor. In fact, I think Thor and Hulk are class 100, over the others in their level 5 category.
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Pedro Cruz Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 January 2006 Posts: 415
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 9
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I NEVER understood how they place Iron Man on the same level as Thor, Hercules or the Incredible Hulk... even in the OHOTMU he's on the ultimate level with cosmic characters like Galactus!!!
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 10
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Iron-Man "explained" it in the page, he said that using the armor's full strength for just a few moments he can reach that level. Which, of course, we had seen in the issues in the past.
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Brian Deuser Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 895
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 11
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I've never seen Eternity lift anything heavy, so I'd say that places 'him' in the 'Excellent' category? He looks feeble enough, so maybe somewhere lower...
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Pat Ditton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2007 Posts: 925
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Posted: 25 October 2007 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 12
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Powerman is easily weaker than Spider-Man, I think.
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I always felt that Powerman should be no stronger than any human in his physical shape -- I just figured the invunerable skin made it possible for him to smash walls, etc, without being hurt -- just able to push limits a little more. So he should be maybe stronger than CAP, but only a little.
Just my feelings on Powerman.
(oh, Cap should be level 4 -- he's supposed to be the pinnacle of human perfection - easily stronger than DD)
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