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Topic: JB at what specific incident did you stop liking Wolverine? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 1  


 QUOTE:
Really? What do you think is the hint?

The shock the lead technician (or whatever he was) showed at the claws popping out of his hands.  It, of course, begs the question of how they failed to notice them in x-rays – assuming any were taken, which is a reasonable assumption.



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 06 October 2007 at 7:07pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 2  

Mutations in the Marvel Universe often tax the willing suspension of
disbelief. Angel, for instance, has wings plus a full compliment of more
traditional limbs, meaning his mutation has turned him not only into a man
with wings, but a six limbed man with wings.

"Spring loaded" claws that retract into the forearm, mirroring no living (or
extinct) creature known to be, tax the willing suspension of disbelief unto
the breaking point. Make 'em "biological adamantium"* and the w.s.o.d.
screams for mercy.



*That would be a biological alloy!!
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 3  

But don't they actually pump the extra adamantium into the forearms? I remember the scene you refer to, Paulo, but not the ones leading up to it. I'll have to go get my HC.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | 4  


 QUOTE:
"Spring loaded" claws that retract into the forearm, mirroring no living (or
extinct) creature known to be, tax the willing suspension of disbelief unto
the breaking point. Make 'em "biological adamantium"* and the w.s.o.d.
screams for mercy.

Completely agreed.  And, of course, just as with the bio-webs, there is no attempt at any kind of explanation or rationalization.  One would think that if he was born with such complex mechanisms, he'd also be born with 3 holes in each hand.  If there's one thing that I'd like to see retconned, it's that (that and whatever the current origin story is.)



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 06 October 2007 at 8:25pm
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 5  


 QUOTE:
But don't they actually pump the extra adamantium into the forearms? I remember the scene you refer to, Paulo, but not the ones leading up to it. I'll have to go get my HC.

Exactly.  They're pumping more adamantium because the claws are demanding it; that's one of the clues.  If the claws were pure adamantium, they wouldn't need to pump more metal into his forearm bones.  There's also no suggestion of anyone creating the claws or creating the complex bionic mechanism one would assume would be necessary to get them to work.  And, again, the surprise expressed at the emergence of the claws, which seem to have a somewhat bony texture, rather than a streamlined look.  The bespectacled bald guy may have known he had them but the other guys didn't.

Anyway, it's a shame because I found it an otherwise decent story.



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 06 October 2007 at 8:36pm
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 6  

Never really saw it that way. I was planning on re-reading this soon and now I may have to make it sooner. Thanks for bringing this to the table, Paulo,
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 7  

It completely escaped me the first time I read it too.  I guess my mind was so set on his claws being cybernetic, that I didn't consider that any other conclusion could ever logically be reached.  After it was officially revealed his claws were organic I went back to WX to see what it had to say about such a ludicrous development and sure enough...



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 06 October 2007 at 9:28pm
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David Kingsley Kingsley
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Posted: 07 October 2007 at 7:24am | IP Logged | 8  

Robbie, thanks for helping me find those issue numbers! I appreciate it.

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 07 October 2007 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 9  

Ok, Paulo. I see the scene you are referencing. But for a couple of lines od dialogue, I would definitely agree with you.

Bald glasses guy and Cornelius are discussing the new weapon that has just been forged. Cornelius responds, "The knives, then, in his hands... pure adamantium." At which bald glasses guy responds, "Have you not heard a word I've said? They're not knives, Cornelius...They're Claws!"

So, based on that exchange, I still think the bone clawsare to be added later. It reads to me that Bald Glasses Guy had planned for the addition of the extra adamantium all along to into making these claws. There's nothing in the script to indicate to me that the adamantium is being fused or whatever to bone. Now, how they got razor sharp after just being pumped into a forearm? No idea. I guess that's why Bald Glasses Guy is a top-rate scientist and I'm just... well I'm not a top-rate scientist.

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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 07 October 2007 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 10  

Well, you compelled me to dig my MCP: WX comics out of my longbox, but before I reread it, I would suggest the fact that the Evil Bald Guy strongly insisted on the term "claws" suggests he wasn't just being pedantic.  The word "claws" has some significance here.  The "pure adamantium" remarks seems to reflect the idea that the curly-haired accomplice was being kept in the dark.

I also still maintain that they wouldn't just be able to pump metal into his claws and end up with spring-loaded claws (at least not without undermining WSOD).  There would, reasonably, have to be some sort of complex mechanism and a lengthy surgical process.

However, even if I'm wrong about the intent here, it still leaves the door fairly wide open for the bone claws revelation.



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 07 October 2007 at 8:28am
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 07 October 2007 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 11  

Well. I can see how you can see it that way. And see how this was, possibly, the place where the whole idea of the bone claws came from. I can see that, I just don't read it that way. It's cool.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 07 October 2007 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 12  

Yeah, it's cool whatever your interpretation is.  I just like discussing this sort of thing.  Anyway, I'm re-reading it right now and I remain convinced that WX is seed of the bone claws story.  The dialogue you referenced strikes me as a subtle confirmation of the fact rather than a refutation:

Professor: "And what you're looking at right now, doctor...is the most formidable tactical weapon ever conceived.

Cornelius: "Yes... The knives, then, in his hands...pure adamantium.

Professor: "Have you not heard a word I've said?  They're not knives, Cornelius...they're claws!"

Before he can expound on this, he's interrupted and has to gas Logan before he goes crazy again.  So he never gets a chance to say the claws are organic.  But, anyway, in this bit of dialogue, Dr. Cornelius is practically speaking with the voice of the readers.  Like the readers, Cornelius is under the impression that the claws are separate attachments and are the actual metal.  The Professor's response is as if to say to the readers, "No, what you thought was wrong.  He was born with them."  Of course, it wasn't outright stated that way because the big reveal was yet to come a few years later, a few issues after Magneto strips Wolverine's bones of the adamantium.  I strongly question, however, that his was BWS's idea.  I'm betting he was hired to tell the story but that the idea came via committee.

In a later issue, the Prof says, when looking at an osteograph "Look at that!  The perfect synthesis of human trabeculea [should be trabeculae] and adamantium.  Bone...bonded to the hardest metal in the world--inside the body of a berzerker!"  Plus, again, the claws seem to have a bony texture (though not as much as they would have when his bones get de-metallized).



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 07 October 2007 at 3:29pm
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