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Roger A Ott II
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5371
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| Posted: 05 October 2007 at 11:33pm | IP Logged | 1
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Derek Muthart: Romulus and Remus, two brothers raised by a wolf, that created the
Roman nation, employ lupine soldiers (Wolverine and Sabertooth) to do
the dirty work.
________________________________
Gak! That's even more ridiculously and insipidly stupid than Origin.
Wow. Just wow.
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francis tsai
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 188
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| Posted: 05 October 2007 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | 2
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Peter Svensson: "Personally, I think that Marvel should have released an anthology of
different takes on Wolverine's origin so that none of them would be
right. Like how DC did the Secret Origin of the Phantom Stranger. Chris
Claremont's origin. Len Wein's origin. Roy Thomas's origin. John
Byrne's origin. Cockrum's origin."
That's a really good idea - seems like a good way to have the cake and eat it too. The "mystery man" concept is preserved but you still have all the dissection/deconstruction you would want.
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 12:03am | IP Logged | 3
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Derek Muthart:
QUOTE:
| Romulus and Remus, two brothers raised by a wolf, that created the Roman nation, employ lupine soldiers (Wolverine and Sabertooth) to do the dirty work. |
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Wow. Now Wolverine has a place in the history of my Nation, too.
The end? For me, it was when they gave him the solo title. By the way, ORIGIN was the last nail in Wolverine's coffin.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14831
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 2:43am | IP Logged | 4
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If it were only Wolverine being a wolf-being, I would just roll my eyes, but the story implies that most feral mutants are actually descendants of a separate species of man that evolved from wolves. (Who have somehow intermingled with regular humans with no problem. I guess if you can have babies with aliens, you can have babies with wolf-men.)
The story's is not over yet, so I guess this could be all a ruse by the villain who could count on everyone being idiot. I mean despite the theory that the feral mutants were descended from wolves, the gathered group that gave rise to this theory included Feral and Thornn, two cat mutants, and Sasquatch, who isn't a mutant and, you know, a mythical sasquatch. It makes sense that the apelike sasquatch is more closely related to wolves, right? Walter Langkowski and T'Challa need their science degrees revoked for even being in this story.
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Mikael Bergkvist
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 April 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1857
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 5
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M***** can be accused of a lot a things, but sientific accuracy is't one of 'em.
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 4:57am | IP Logged | 6
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Reading JB's response to the Logan/Mariko question makes me recall how he explained it a year or so ago. It sounds a hell of lot more powerful than anything that Marvel is coming out with these days and fits the character as I remembered him back in those days, too.
Wolverine (and any Marvel character, for that matter) is a cypher today. Anyone who gets a job writing for Joe Quesada's Marvel seems to be allowed to come in a mess with his origin (and fans' heads) in any manner he/she feels like doing. That kind of policy is what finally drove me away from Marvel in end.
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Derek Muthart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2005
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 6:23am | IP Logged | 7
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That kind of policy is what finally drove me away from Marvel in end.
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I still read Marvel books, but not with the enthusiasm I used to. I take each story on a case by case basis and assume the next time I visit the character everything will have changed. For me, the current versions of Wolverine and the X-men are unreadable, whereas, the new Thor book has sparked my interest.
Unfortunately, DC seems to be falling into the same trap. Did we really need an Infinite Crisis? These Crisis types of events should only be used to clean up continuity, instead Infinite Crisis only made things more confusing.
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Aki Himmanen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 8
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There was also a sabre-tooth marsupial known as the thylacosmilus.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 6:49am | IP Logged | 9
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To be fair, John, you pulled back the curtain and showed me what Victor
Von Doom's face looked like after the explosion. That one panel put an
end to all those debates along the lines of "Is Doom horribly disfigured
(the Stan Lee view) or did he suffer just a tiny nick that marred his
perfection and his ego equated that scar to total disfigurement (the Jack
Kirby view)?" (Personally, I always found that to be a more satisfying
debate than "Who is stronger: The Thing or the Hulk?")
The Great Debate ove Doom's face was a fan myth. There was never any
suggestion in the books themselves that his face was anything other than
horribly disfigured. As Kirby drew him in the post-explosion flashback in
FF5, in fact, Doom's bandaged profile clearly shows he doesn't even have
an external nose any more.
Then the story started circulating that Kirby wanted Doom to have only a
minor scar, and it be his tremendous ego that rendered this, in his own
mind, a hideous disfigurement. Again, nothing in the books themselves
to support this (and, since Kirby drew him without a nose we can
assume Jack had changed his mind on this idea before he penciled
FF5). Anyone who saw Doom's face recoiled in horror. Even Don Blake, a
doctor, was repelled by what he saw.
A segment of fandom, however, grabbed hold of this little legend and
turned it into yet another Stan vs. Jack story. So I silenced them, by
saying both versions were true. (Now, go after me for that,
since it clearly contradicts Kirby having drawn Doom without a nose.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 10
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the wolverine is part of the family mustelidae, and is a relative of the
weasel and the mink.
Don't cloud the issue with facts!
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 11
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Speaking of crappy origins, don't forget Nightcrawler's new origin of being born by a demon/angel family branch of mutants. One reason I like mutants is that they have no origin, they just get powers and who cares.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 October 2007 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 12
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Roger Stern used to say there was nothing to write for a mutant's origin.
"One night in the back of a '57 Chevy..." and you were done.
Problem is, it's not only the bulk of the readers who have forgotten what
a mutant is, in the context of the Marvel Universe, it's most of the writers
and editors, too. If your dad's a demon, you're not a mutant unless you
can be shown to have some abilities different from either parent -- and
even then it's a bit dodgy. (Namor, for instance, is a mutant not because
of the mingling of human and Atlantean DNA, but because of his ability to
fly.)
Nightcrawler was always a bit dodgy, of course. From my first
reading of GIANT-SIZED X-MEN thru my years of actually working with
the character, I was very aware that he violated Stan's original description
of mutants, ie someone with an (singluar) eXtra ability. Nightcrawler,
with his appearance, his prehensile tail, his ability to cling to any surface,
his teleporting, his glowing eyes and his (since forgotten?) ability to turn
invisible "in shadow" was a whole troop of mutants rolled into one.
Wolverine, at least, had "only" his healing factor -- until "mutant healing
factor" became everybody's toy.
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