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Mike Murray Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 530
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 1
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Wow, Marvel screws up another character because they're too lazy and/or stupid to read and understand a comic book I comprehended in junior high school. The crystal - deus ex machina, macguffin, whatever you want to call it - did not only supercharge Wolverine's healing factor it gave him godlike powers that he could have used to reshape reality (which is why he had his adamantium skeleton in his new incarnation, I assume - haven't read the book in many years). They've pulled that one instance out of context, ignored the 20 years of stories after it which showed his healing factor fluctuating for various reasons, and decided that it was a defining moment.
But Wolverine bleeds all the time. Any explanation why these @#$%'s don't think there's thousands of Wolverines running around, if his healing factor creates new bodies from a single drop?
This thing about his soul repeatedly fighting a guy named "Lazer" in the afterlife seems like the ultimate example of a new writer pissing on a character to mark his territory and add something "new" and "important" to the character without even understanding the story it's supposedly based on. Par for the course with the new guard at Marvel these day, I'm so glad I dropped their books a few years ago.
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Jason Powell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 429
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 2
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"A.k.a. the incredibly lame deus ex machina?"
No, a.k.a. the entire point of that story.
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Gregg Halecki Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 759
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 3
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I gotta chime in here on a couple notes....
I actually like the idea of the natural claws. I don't see any real reason why he SHOULDN'T have natural claws. It makes a bit of sense, since he has other animalistic features. With the exception of the one sceen where JB drew his skeleton having the mechanical parts in an (alternate?) future death sceen, there is nothing really contradicted by that. For years everyone TALKED about his claws being implanted, but we never SAW them being implanted. They talked about it that way because they were starting from a misconception. I really don't see that as being that big of a deal.
The Annual where Wolverine regenerates a new body from the single drop of blood. No problem there either. If somethign similar had happened when Captain America or Captain Marvel was fighting the Red Skull or Thanos, got mortally wounded, fell up against the Cosmic Cube and got a new body formed and kept fighting, would there be the same problem? I really don't think that it is accurate to consider this to be a deus ex machina kind of situation since it seems to me that it was written out with that kind of sceen in mind. If they showed Wolverine die at the end of that story, and then a year later brought him back using that as the excuse for him being alive, then I would line up with everyone else calling foul, but I think that the story as written was just fine.
As far as his history goes, I would certainly have preferred if they had left it very undefined and mysterious. Now it is loosely defined and confusing. From here they have two choices. They can either keep going like this or they can lay it all out in the open and give a much clearer and more detailed history of him. I can think of about half a dozen stories of Logan's pre X-Men days off the top of my head including his time in Japan, D-Day, WWII in the Pacific, cold war adventures with Ben Grimm and Carol Danvers, the Weapon X precedures, various alluded to meetings with Nick Fury, all sorts of stuff with the rest of the Weapon X team, Department H. All of this is without any of the Origen story coming into mention. Iron all of that out with a more or less complete history that is solid enough so that new writers have less ambiguity to fall back on and "invent" background stuff, so that they have to focus on moving forward.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 4
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A deus ex machina being the point of a story renders it no less a deus ex machina. If a writer begins with an idea that is totally out of the normal province of the characters, something which, without it being there, would render the story impossible to tell (or, at least, to tell in the same way), then the writer has created a scenario in which the characters are serving the story, rather than the other way 'round.I will be always more impressed with a story that takes me somewhere surprising while remaining in context, than one that pulls rabbits out of hats -- even if the rabbit was known to be there from the beginning of the story. Thus, for example, Wolverine survives being punched into orbit because of his healing factor as established. But if the same story had opened with the mystic M'Krap Comet being seen drifting lazily thru space and then (lucky really) happening by just in time to give Logan's healing factor a boost that allows him to survive being punched into orbit, it's deus ex machina time.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 5
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I actually like the idea of the natural claws. I don't see any real reason why
he SHOULDN'T have natural claws.
•••
That retract into his forearms and emerge from the backs of his hands?
Show me where that configuration occurs "naturally".
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Kevin Hagerman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 18034
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 6
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But Wolverine bleeds all the time. Any explanation why these @#$%'s don't think there's thousands of Wolverines running around, if his healing factor creates new bodies from a single drop? ------------------------------------------------------
Hey! Don't give them any ideas! :)
Wolverine doesn't have the INHERENT ability to regenerate from a drop of blood. Here's the relevent text:
A few thoughts:
- Gorgeous art
- Too much kissing! Horde kisses Storm (to show how haughty he is, I guess), Storm kisses Wolverine (uh, why?), Wolverine kisses Mariko/Yukio, Rogue virtually kisses herself...
- Longshot. Worst X-Man ever.
- I think my biggest problem was I just don't like my X-Men too cosmic. I know it's not THAT much of a stretch for them: the Z'nox, The Stranger (only at that story's end, but still), and even some of my favorites included cosmic elements (Phoenix, The Broodworld). But it's not as easy a fit for me as a knock-down drag-out in the city streets.
Edited by Kevin Hagerman on 15 October 2007 at 10:31am
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Eric Lund Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2074
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 7
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exspecially bone claws which natural claws are not made of..and that look like DEER ANTLERS ta boot!
claws are made of keratin not bone!... "Bone claws" were the the single stupidest thing ever conceived by ^^*****
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
Too much kissing! Horde kisses Storm (to show how haughty he is, I guess), Storm kisses Wolverine (uh, why?), Wolverine kisses Mariko/Yukio, Rogue virtually kisses herslef... |
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And this is wrong why??? :)
I'm a huge fan of Claremont's run but the annuals are mostly worth skipping even the Art Adams ones. Annuals 7, 8 & 11 are particularly bad imo.
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Kevin Hagerman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 18034
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 9
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I guess I wasn't big on kissing the first time I read this.
Probably jealous.
I've said too much.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 10
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"Given sufficient power, my entire body could regenerate from the genetic
data encoded in a single cell, or drop of blood."
With a shave and a haircut included for free, apparently.
Gak. That doesn't even read like Wolverine! Gak! Gak! GAK!!!!
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Armindo Macieira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 955
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 11
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The problem for me is that I really liked Wolverine, and all this nonsense about his healing factor killed the character for me! I remember the days when it took him a couple of hours to recover from a stab wound...
Same thing with the Hulk. Ever since Peter David had him regenerate his entire skin in like 3 seconds, it's a dead character for me! How can you beat him then? Only inventing new Deus Ex Machinas and playing us for fools...
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Andrew Hess Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9845
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Posted: 15 October 2007 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 12
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eek! That's pretty bad, even with the Alan Davis art.
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