Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 17 Next >>
Topic: JB at what specific incident did you stop liking Wolverine? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 1  


 QUOTE:
The funny thing is that it wasn't until Guggenheim's Civil War story where
Wolverine recovered from being seared to the bone by Nitro that I
thought Wolverine's healing factor became absurd. So unless that whole
bit was editorially mandated (which I could see), to say that "I'm trying to
make the best with what I was given" doesn't work for me. It's a bit
disappointing, because I think he really gets Wolverine otherwise.

Well, there were previous indications, such as Wolverine's throat getting ripped out and his being torn in half (even though that was in another continuity) but I see what you're saying.  Guggenheim said he "always [took] it for granted that Wolverine can heal himself from pretty severe injuries" and says he was surprised at the criticism over Wolverine's being able to recover from Nitro's attack. 

He also cites X-MEN Annual 11, the story where Wolverine was "down to a single drop of blood,"  which seems to be misremembering the story.  He wasn't "down to a single drop of blood."  Rather, his heart was pulled out by the bad guy and a drop of Logan's blood fell on an enormously powerful crystal that the villain was guarding, enabling Wolverine to generate a new body (his old body was still lying a few feet away).


 QUOTE:
Sending a character who wavers between agnosticism and atheism to the
afterlife doesn't work for me. (And yes, I recall that when he comes back
to life he doesn't have any memory of being in the afterlife.) Neither does
adding a mystical/spiritual element to Wolverine.

Can't disagree with that (it's kind of like the suggestion of Nightcrawler's half-demon origin).  I don't like the idea at all, really.  I guess I was just giving Guggenheim the benefit of the doubt.  BTW, (another ***spoiler warning***) the CSN article has a shot of a page with Dr. Strange and Wong looking at Logan's soul swirling around in some orange mist or something.

Also incidentally, Guggenheim said he welcomed Origin and thought the mystery aspect of Wolverine had become "played out."  That I, of course, completely disagree and offer no rationalization.



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 14 October 2007 at 8:01am
Back to Top profile | search
 
David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 2  

Also incidentally, Guggenheim said he welcomed Origin and thought the mystery aspect of Wolverine had become "played out." That I, of course, completely disagree with and offer no rationalization

********

How about "everybody needs a little mystery"?

That's my rationalisation. If you know everything there is to know, why would you need to know more i.e. why would you need to read about him anymore?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 3  


 QUOTE:
That's my rationalisation. If you know everything there is to know, why would you need to know more i.e. why would you need to read about him anymore?

Or the writer could just not focus on his past so much.  Or introduce little hints of his past every so often like Larry Hama did (though I can't say I was much of a fan of his work).

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18034
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 4  

(Sidenote: how can they have a dozen X-teams and no Angel?)

-------------------------------------

Because a rich, charismatic, good-looking winged man apparently isn't cool.

(I don't get it either.  He seems like a piece of cake to write: he's got an easy smile and a decent wit, he can friggin' FLY, and he's no dummy.  But he gets neglected while others get overused.)

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 5  

Because a rich, charismatic, good-looking winged man apparently isn't cool.

•••

If you pay attention, you quickly notice that the characters ^^***** either ignores or trashes are those that best represent the heroic ideal. The ones who would give us something to aspire to. Simply not acceptable in the modern world, where the playingfield must be level, and no one must be allowed to be better than anyone else.

(It's a sad comment on the state of comics, that something Roger Stern said years ago about one particular writer -- that he could not understand superheroes because he could not accept that anyone could be more noble than he was, ie not very -- has become representative of the bulk of the product.)

Back to Top profile | search
 
Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 6  

For instance, neither the Prof nor Dr. Cornelius initially knew Logan was a mutant.  Did they think a normal man would survive the procedure?

*******

I assume in Wolverine's time working for the Canadian goverment, he survived some very brutal injuries that would kill a normal man. Which is why he was chosen for the Weapon X program.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 7  

I assume in Wolverine's time working for the Canadian goverment, he
survived some very brutal injuries that would kill a normal man. Which is
why he was chosen for the Weapon X program.

••

You should not have to "assume" tho. I find myself doing this, too, with
movies especially, to backstop plot holes. But if the story is well structured,
the reader/viewer should really never have to assume.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 8  

It occurs to me that the whole idea of having Wolverine get the snot kicked out of him - or killed - multiple times is fairly off base in the first place.  This is a guy who is comparable in skill level to guys like Captain America, Black Panther and Daredevil.  He has frequently been shown to be well-versed in various forms of combat just like those characters.  But we rarely ever had to worry about these guys getting severely injured or killed in combat.  Why should that be the case with Logan?  Isn't avoiding injury and death  one of the things he's supposed to be good at?  Yes, his healing factor (and heightened senses) are his mutant powers but not such that he could (or was willing to) die at will.  His powers never struck me as being the main draw.  To me, it was his unwillingness to take prisoners and his disdain for authority; also that his strength and fighting spirit were disproportionate to his size.

Wasn't Wolverine the ass-kicker at one time and not the chronically ass-kicked?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 9  

Lazy writers.Why bother to think up a way for him to avoid being hurt, when you can just have him heal?
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 10  

Who'd have thunk that Wolverine would have become Mr. Immortal?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 11  

But we rarely ever had to worry about these guys getting severely injured or killed in combat.  Why should that be the case with Logan?

******

Could it be the healing factor makes him flight sloppier?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 14 October 2007 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 12  

Perhaps, but not to the extent that he would open himself up to be slaughtered like a pig.

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 17 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login