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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 1
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I enjoyed the 1963 comics at face value, fun stories overall.
I cringe at recent attempts to reinterpret the Silver Age for 'modern' audiences in certain books.
I think that more books with well-written single issue stories would certainly be more accessible to new readers, unlike the current bloated, multi-issue storylines by the Big Two.
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Chuck Wells Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1244
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 2
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I didn't care for 1963, I loved Marvel: The Lost Generation.
I'm sympathetic to Jack Kirby and the struggles that he endured later in life, but after reading much material about "The Man", I'm of the opinion that he was entirely too trusting of some institutions/individuals and that he was his own worst enemy in many respects.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 3
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What did you fellas think of DC's "Silver Age" series from a few years back?
I read the Doom Patrol ish, but the art was "eh". I read some reviews of these books not long ago. Seems there was a lot of effort to tie them all together. I don't know if that makes sense, since DC didn't participate in a lot of that crossover nonsense.
But what about it? And which issues are definitely worth picking up?
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Ed Love Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2712
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 4
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The problem I have with Big Bang, 1963 and indeed most creators when
they say they are writing or going for "Silver Age" is that they tend to be
aiming for pastiche and parody. They and the books tend to be more
concerned about the form and physical qualities of the Silver Age books,
thus they are fake and tend to be written down, aping a specific style. It's
the difference between someone aping Kirby and someone taking the
lessons and such by Kirby and using them to expand their own style.
When trying to ape a style, it's usually by highlighting flaws, shortcomings
and exagerating them further. Which is why I tend to like Moore's "For the
Man who has Everything" story far more than "Whatever happened to the
Man of Tomorrow" which was more parody and cliche.
If I was trying to launch books that had a Silver-age feel, I'd get writers
and artists that write with those type of sensibilities (creative plots, heroic
heroes, dastardly super villains, artwork that's clean and about
storytelling): Tom DeFalco, Byrne, Stern, Simone, Busiek, Tom Grummett,
Perez, Ron Frenz
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 5
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Affectations like "250’" effectively underscore the basic problem with "Silver Age" -- it was just too self-aware, struggling too hard to be too cute for words.As Ed notes, this is more parody than homage. The seams show, people very much uneasy with the quirks of the period, and not able to take it all straight as did the original writers.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 6
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You mean like in : it would be moral and ethical for you to make millions out of the work of a guy that you would pay a couple of bucks in exchange ? You're in the hotel business. You hire an architect to design a new hotel for you. A price is agreed upon, in keeping with the going rates of the time. The designs are drawn up, the hotel is built. You run it, staff it, advertise it, manage it. The hotel becomes a huge success. One day, the architect knocks on the door. "You're making millions off my design," he says. "I want a cut!" Do you give it to him?
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 7
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I think we need to separate "legal" from "moral & ethical" here.
Kirby (or any other comic creator) certainly wasn't entitled to any additional payment from Marvel. He voluntarily agreed to work for whatever he was paid at the time. If he didn't like the terms, he didn't have to do the work - case closed.
However, I think you can make a separate ethical argument that paying royalties on future earnings would have been the morally right thing to do.
For example, Dave Cockrum, who helped create the revamped X-Men franchise, died relatively penniless last year. He was paid a fair rate for his work in 1975, when the X-Men were largely unknown and the only money to be made was in selling comic books.
However, no one could have forseen at the time that the X-Men would spawn a series of films that grossed more than $1 billion, not to mention videogames, DVDs, toys, t-shirts, etc. Surely, that vast fortune wouldn't have been made without the contributions of Dave Cockrum (or John Byrne, for that matter). Would Marvel have even missed, say, a $50,000 or $100,000 annual pension that would've allowed Mr. Cockrum to live out his days in comfort?
So in my mind, the morally right thing to do would be to pay these creators something that recognizes their role in building this franchise. Again, the law may not require it, but it would be the right thing to do.
Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 17 September 2007 at 11:12am
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Ted Pugliese Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 7985
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 8
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No, No, No.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 9
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However, no one could have forseen at the time that the X-Men would spawn a series of films that grossed more than $1 billion, not to mention videogames, DVDs, toys, t-shirts, etc. Surely, that vast fortune wouldn't have been made without the contributions of Dave Cockrum (or John Byrne, for that matter). Would Marvel have even missed, say, a $50,000 or $100,000 annual pension that would've allowed Mr. Cockrum to live out his days in comfort? You're missing the big picture. Suppose Marvel had decided to pay Dave something for his contribution to their biggest cash cow. Imagine what would happen next. Every artist and writer who had ever worked on the X-Men would be banging at the door -- many armed with lawyers. A friend who talked to him told me Marv Wolfman had expressed surprise that Marvel did not simply settle out of court when he sued over the rights to Blade. Same point missed here as above. Corporations must protect themselves, or they can very quickly be run right out of business fighting off spurious claims. We may not like that picture, but it is how the world works.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 10
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Very true. When it comes to characters who have been published continuously for many decades, where would the line be drawn? Sure, it would be nice to see Steve Ditko get a ton of money from the success of the Spider-Man films, but then what's to stop Todd McFarlane from claiming that the success of the films is due to the large numbers of people who grew up reading his version of the character? Throw Gerry Conway, Tom De Falco, Roger Stern, Ron Frenz, John Romita, and all the others into that equation and we have a HUGE mess!
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Mike Sawin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 766
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 11
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Well, that settles it. Ted said no. Three times. End of discussion!
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14857
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Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 12
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So in my mind, the morally right thing to do would be to pay these creators
something that recognizes their role in building this franchise. Again, the
law may not require it, but it would be the right thing to do.
---
I agree it would be the moral thing to do, but I don't think it would be
ethically required.
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