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Aleksei Green
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 640
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 1
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Simon Buchner Jones, I know that you are a huge fan of Doctor who and probably watch the spinoff TORCHWOOD. TORCHWOOD has lots of gay sex and sex, sex, sex of all varieties. Interspecies e.t.c. Lots of kids watch that show even though its for a mature audience. Captain Jack even has action figures. So kids are seeing lots of sex on that show that they never would have seen on 1063-1989 Doctor Who. Whats your views on that series and kids viewing it?
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Aleksei Green
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 640
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 2
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Sorry Simon. I misspelt your surname.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 3
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The Kinsey report was written in 1948 and was the first (that I know of) to get a figure of 10% of the population. It has been 60 years since this report has come out. Meanwhile, other studies have come out that dispute Kinsey's numbers.••• This is what you wrote: "Unless someone can come up with a study that contradicts the Stats Canada study, I am gonna have to go with the smaller number. " Kinsey contradicts the Stats Canada study, but you dismiss it. Why? Uncomfortble with the high number? Again, I call bullshit.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 4
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Bradley, if the number is 1%, what's the point? If the number is 10%, then it is a significant percentage of society. This is why gay activist groups will use high numbers and anti-gay groups will quote very low numbers.
To be honest, I could care less if a character is gay or not. I didn't understand why it should be mentioned in a comic at all. It just reminds me of "very special episodes" in sitcoms who are devoid of new ideas.
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Aleksei Green
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 640
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 5
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Of course it depends on ones definition of homosexuality or gay. People primarily men on the downlow have sex with men but would never call themselves gay. There was the thesis by Laud Humpreys called TEAROOM TRADE:IMPERSONAL SEX IN PUBLIC PLACES that dealt with men such as Sen. Craig who cruise the men's room for anonymous homosexual sex. These men almost never consider themselves homosexual and are often homophobic and self hating. And the bisexual label would not be accurate for them. These men are often married with children and range from blue collar to the white collar professions and even doctors, lawyers and politicans. The socalled closet cases.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133569
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 6
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I never liked Chris Claremont having Kitty ask the man if he was a 'nigger'. Obviously that was cruel and racially insensitive of Claremont to do. Mutants are fiction. African Americans are real and I wonder how many were hurt by those words.•• Why should that be an issue? In the Marvel Universe, there is a form of "racism" directed against mutants. It is every bit a vile and hateful as the racism we encounter out here in the "real world". Since the X-Men have, almost from Day One, stood as a metaphor for prejudice in all its forms, it is preposterous to expect the writer of their adventures to soft-peddle lest someone be "hurt". There are plenty of people who would be "hurt" to see a Black woman mixing freely and as an equal with White people. Should the X-Men be strictly Caucasian? No, wait, that would also "hurt" some people. How about if we get off the PC soapboxes, use langauge as it exists, and tell people who let words hurt them to get over themselves, and stop empowering the very mindset they want to see eliminated.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 7
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And I spent an hour researching other reports, all of which contradict Kinsey and show that Kinsey's conclusion is too high. Therefore I dismiss his sixty-year old study as being superseded by new data and evidence that points toward a smaller percentage. This is how science works.
The scientific theory of the luminiferous aether contradicts modern research so I dismiss it. Nothing bullshit about it.
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Kor Watkins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 765
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 8
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John, I have to agree with you!
I also have to agree with Bradley - how do statistics affect how homosexuals are presented in comics?
As for Jim Shooter, I've never met the man, nor have I heard him say anything "anti-gay". That Hulk story seems like an attempt at something more "adult" that just happened to have gay people in the aggressive role. I think the story reflects more on what things were like back then in terms of attitudes. It's possible that Jim Shooter had some "anti-gay" feelings, even if he was unaware of it. That is, unfortunately, how things were. I would hope that if this were so, that his feelings have changed. There has been more positive exposure and education about homosexuals in the last 20-30 years. Has anyone bothered to email him and ask?
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Bruce Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 9
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I never liked Chris Claremont having Kitty ask the man if he was a 'nigger'. Obviously that was cruel and racially insensitive of Claremont to do. Mutants are fiction. African Americans are real and I wonder how many were hurt by those words. Shooter and politically correct Nocenti had no trouble with that dialogue at all.
*************
I would hardly call that section "cruel and racially insensitive," Alexsei. In fact, I would argue the opposite - that Claremont was trying to make a point against racial prejudice.
It's all about context and, in this case (as when JB used the same word in the Fantastic Four), the context was appropriate. An offensive word was shown to be ugly and offensive.
However, I think you can argue that using that word might not be appropriate in a comic book aimed largely at a children's audience. That might put parents in an awkward spot. I'm not saying I think what JB and Claremont did was wrong, but I can understand why some folks might feel that way.
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Bradley Dean
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 March 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 538
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 10
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Bradley, if the number is 1%, what's the point?
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Well as one of those people, I think the point is that I deserve to have characters I can identify with. We live in a world with homosexuals in it, we deserve to be recognized as portion of society. Characters sexual orientation is a part of who they are and shapes a character, I feel the same should be done for homosexual characters.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 11
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Aleksei, you may have a point. This could be a large subset of the population or it could be very small. It all depends how you would define the terms. Good luck getting that data, if it really is that closeted.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 11 September 2007 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 12
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So Bradley, if the Beast was gay, he would have a different character than what he has now? (assuming he is straight). Can you elaborate on that? I just can't see how it would make a difference in his character. He would still fight Magneto and join the Avengers and still be blue and furry. He would also be brilliant and quick with words. What would change?
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