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James Hanson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2006
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 1
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Silver Age Superman can seemingly do anything.
Modern Age Superman-- I'd suspect not. Because John Byrne said so, and
he's the one that established the power levels for this version. Now, I
think they may have jacked up his powers, but am unsure as to what's
going on exactly. Superman's strength seems very vague and varies
depending on the writer.
BTW, if they did jack up his powers again-- why? The number one
complaint against Superman is that he's too powerful-- Byrne remedies
this, and they screw it up again. If I were in charge, I'd have a few
characters more powerful in certain ways than Superman. I'd have Capt.
Marvel be stronger, but Superman be faster. Wonder Woman would have
more endurance, etc.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132663
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 2
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What's the point in having a Superman if he can't break adamantium?*** What's the point in having adamantium if Superman can break it? In some respects, this becomes a rather pointless discussion. Adamantium was created to be "unbreakable" -- and I don't mean created in the sense of invented by somebody in the comics. I mean that was the author's intent. So if Superman, or anybody else, can break adamantium, it isn't what it's supposed to be. Isaac Asimov wrote an essay many moons ago that addressed a similar point. What happens when an irresistable force meets an immovable object? First, Asimov said, we must define our terms. An irresistable force would be one which, obviously, cannot be resisted. Any object placed in its way would be either destroyed or pushed aside with no change to the force itself. Similarly, an immovable object would be -- duh! -- one that cannot be moved. Any force directed against it would be deflected or absorbed, with no change to the object. Therefore, Asimov pointed out, the question is completely moot. In a universe in which there is a truly immovable object, there cannot be an irresistable force. Ditto for the reverse. So, if adamantum is what it is supposed to be, Superman could not break it.
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2181
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 3
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No
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16469
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 4
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Was it Roy Thomas that came up with adamantium? I remember it first being mentioned in an "Avengers" comic.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 5
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I believe you are right, Matt. Roy, probably borrowing from the "adamantine steel" of FORBIDDEN PLANET, gave us Adamantium.Which, btw, is an alloy, not to be found in nature. Which rather begs the question of how Wolverine's claws and bones could be part of his mutation!
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James Hanson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2006
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 6
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Wasn't there a mythical Greek metal called adamant?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 7
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Here's the problem: the moment somebody comes up with X, somebody else will want to come up with something stronger than X. (When I was doing WONDER WOMAN, for instance, there was another writer at DC who was insisting that the character he was currently in charge of was "Doomsday level" in power. Doomsday was specifically created to be powerful enough to kill Superman. Unfortunately, for lazy writers, that meant Doomsday also became a benchmark. "My guy is as tough as Doomsday" becomes the quick and easy way of establishing how touch "my guy" is without actually doing any real work.)So, as noted, if we establish an "unbreakable" metal, like adamantium, lazy writers will immediately start breaking it. This became such a problem at Marvel, in fact, that eventually it had to be established that true adamantium was an extremely rare commodity, and all these island-spanning domes and the like that got shattered when the need arose were actually a lesser grade, not pure, and therefore not indestructible.
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Daren Frost
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 133
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 8
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Which, btw, is an alloy, not to be found in nature. Which rather begs the question of how Wolverine's claws and bones could be part of his mutation!
---
I believe it couldn't be part of his mutation. The only thing which can change the shape of adamantium is the molecular rearranger (Avengers #68).
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John C. Harrison
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 422
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 9
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ok but can we at least come to an accord that if Superman were to use his heat vision on Wolverine's Adamantium it would be one hell of a hot foot?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 10
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Absolutely! In fact, Wolverine's adamantium skeleton is hardly the super weapon some think it to be. Altho his unbreakable bones give him a distinct advantage in a fight, the rest of him is still flesh and blood. He's like a Terminator -- except that, if all his flesh got blasted off his bones, the bones would not be able to get up and walk around! (I addressed this, tongue firmly in cheek, in the "Smacks of Vengeance" story in WHAT THE?!?)
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 11
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I've never seen anything definite on the conductive powers of Adamantium, but I would presume it to be close to zero. If Adamantium conducts heat, cold or electricity, then all it would take to kill Wolverine is a temperature extreme enough to fry or freeze his brain. Or a current strong enough to short out his brain or nervous system.
Edit: I'm sort of working backwards here. For Wolverine NOT to be killed by heat vision, Adamantium would have to be (almost or completely) non-conductive. Which I suppose also means it can't be magnetic. Hmm.
Edited by Knut Robert Knutsen on 09 June 2007 at 11:53am
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Trevor Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3530
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| Posted: 09 June 2007 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 12
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All this talk of Superman and Wolverine, of course, begs the reverse question...can Wolverine's claws actually cut Superman? I think the general consensus in the Hulk thread was that the claws could cut Hulk's skin, but what about Clark?
*edited for missing word - damn gremlins
Edited by Trevor Smith on 09 June 2007 at 12:40pm
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