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Ray Brady
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I always preferred Robin over Batman as a kid, but by the time I started reading comics, Robin was no longer a kid. When I played Robin, I played him as Burt Ward's age.
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Thom Price
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

But the kids were already identifying with Batman. They hated Robin.

***

I've never liked kid sidekicks myself, but was Robin really hated?  I was under the impression sales increased after his introduction, and certainly kid sidekicks were practically de rigueur after Robin.  Hardly a version of Batman goes by -- whether in print, animation or film -- in which Robin isn't introduced eventually. 

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Chris Hutton
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

hmmm, I own one of those hardcovers--- time to dig it out & look for the JB-goodness!
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Serge Ladd
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

How about the BatSignal and the close working relationship with Commissioner Gordon and/or the Gotham PD?
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Thom Price
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I'd love to see a completely 'stripped down' version of Batman.  A street level crimefighter who relies on his intellect and skills rather than a vast armory.  Equal parts Zorro, Sherlock Holmes, Bruce Lee and Houdini.  No Robin or Batgirl.  No Batplane or Batcoptor or Batboat, and a very inconspicuous Batmobile.  No relationship with Superman or the Justice League or other heroes; not because he's an antisocial ass, but because he maintains a low profile.  The criminal underground fears him, while the general population regards him as an urban legend. 

I had hoped ALL-STAR BATMAN would come close to that, but it's not even in the ballpark.
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Chris Durnell
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I think JB's answer about Robin indicates one reason why some fans disliked his Superman reboot, while Frank Miller's Batman: Year One did not catch as much flak (a difference in reaction that JB has stated himself.)

JB likes to focus on the "original concept" and remove a lot of the barnacles that have attached itself.  In general, this is something I support because the barnacles can get in the way.  The obsessive continuity and self-referential stories in today's comics certainly lower my enjoyment.

However, some of those barnacles have become beloved and embedded into the character's "mythos."  Mythos is a very general term, but I used it to describe all aspects of the character that the average fan (not all, but most) strongly identifies with the character, especially to the extent that the character is identified with it.  This could be specific events (Gwen Stacy's death for Spider-Man), supporting characters, setting feel (Frank Miller's noir interpretation of Daredevil), locations (the Baxter Building), and others.  In general, most of a character's mythos will come from a small batch of specific creative runs.  The vast majority of stories simply do not achieve mythic status no matter how entertaining.  Not everything that enters a character's mythos is beneficial (unfortunately Henry Pym's hitting of the Wasp and Tony Stark's alcoholism have achieved this status), but in general mythos elements are enjoyable and treasured by fans.

When those elements are removed or tampered with. fans get upset.  A Batman without a Robin, I feel, would be one of those upsetting issues.  Obviously, not all Batman stories have used Robin - including several eras of "solo Batman" that were loved by fans.  But eventually a Robin finds itself back in - and those solo Batman eras did not eliminate the past history of the Dick Grayson Robin.

Starting anew, in this scenario, it would be easy to not introduce a Robin since it's something fans would expect to happen a bit later, but there would be an expectation there.  Assuming JB did a Batman reboot that started without Robin, eventually a future writer would introduce one.  I am not sure that an extended era of JB Batman issues without Robin would start the protests, but the introduction of Robin would be an inevitable inclusion.  In other specific scenarios, the failure to include or prepare for certain parts of a mythos would lead to upset fans.

It's for those reasons that I don't see much value in reboots or the like at all.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

It's for those reasons that I don't see much value in
reboots or the like at all.

***

You just erased the Silver Age.
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Michael Hunt
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Prehaps make Bruce Wayne a traumatized adult who has a "Robin Hood" complex - and in the same style of the "Ghost of Alfred" from Generations - give this young Batman an imaginary confidant whom he calls "Robin".

---- though I know this dances dangerously close to the "split personality" thing we were discussing in another thread.  

I'm not saying "split" his personality - just give him a "Jimin Cricket" to talk to -- one that eventually goes away as his "Bruce Wayne" and "Batman" identities "merge" (so-to-speak)





Oh -- I hate Robin, by the way -- glad they offed him in the 80s..
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Jacob P Secrest
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

A Batman without a Batmobile I could get into.
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Michael Connell
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply


 QUOTE:
give this young Batman an imaginary confidant whom he calls "Robin".

That Batman wouldn't need a Hostess Fruit Pie because he sounds like a "fruit cake".

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Daniel Cort
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Joined: 21 March 2007
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 JB wrote:
Rather missing the point, the editors introduced Robin to "give the kids someone to identify with."


Wow, first I've ever heard that.

Was this comment published anywhere, and do you know who said it?  It's just such a silly thing to say!
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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 07 June 2007 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

my napkin-sketch in one
of the hardcover editions of DKR.
+++
Scan! Scan! ...please!
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