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Jesus Garcia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 2414
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 1
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Stan admitted that, with another artist, the book might not have been as successful. Here, this seems to be a question of not who created the character but who seems to be most responsible for the success.
IMHO: it's a 3-way co-creation. Stan might have run with Kirby's suggestion and thought up some of the background, but the visuals are indivisible from the final product. Kirby even provided the more "heroic" cover for Amazing Fantasy #15.
Now, if we think further than the simple act of creation, how much was contributed by each creator? Kirby's out. Stan nailed the dialogue. But Steve provided the situations: Peter's constant brush with poverty for example, was a staple of this book, and part of Ditko's background.
I think Lee is thinking in terms of who launched the ship or fathered the baby. A part-time dad can't take credit for his kid becoming a brain surgeon. While Ditko was 50-50 split on Spider-Man and Dr. Strange, Stan was working on the rest of the Marvel Universe. The more interesting question is who nurtured the creation into blossoming or who spent most of the time developping the creation's iconic qualities? I would lean in Ditko's direction, here.
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14191
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 2
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As much as I love Kirby, I don't think he had anything to do with what Lee and Ditko created.
I understand Stan's point of view, but without the imput of Ditko you wouldn't have had the Spider-Man we know. Together they created something iconic. Separate, we'll never really know if it would be as long lasting.
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Dave Pruitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6162
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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Is Stan on record for claiming co-creation of Dr. Strange? I thought, as pointed out in the doc, that Stan said it was all Steve's idea. There a difference of opinion there too?
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14191
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 4
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I think the discussion with Stan only dealt with Spider-Man. I think its pretty clear, that Dr. Strange was Ditko's baby. The more you think about it, an elitist Doctor is punished for his vanity. The only way he can regain what was lost is by being 100% good in a mystic realm of evil. Sounds like a Ditko idea to me.
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Brad Brickley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8289
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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They also said that Marvel printed a letter, in one of the compilations, from Lee saying that Strange is Ditko's idea.
As for the image maker comment, I was just referring to the concept of Ditko imagining the actual image of Spider-Man and his environments and cast for the idea Lee had for the origin story, not Ditko's contribution to the entire run.
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John Angelo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 January 2007 Posts: 838
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | 6
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The Creeper seemed to be rushed over pretty quick in the documentary.
I love the bit with Moore talking about Ditko comparing the Question to Rorshach.
***I never knew Ross was such a comics fan until this was brought to my attention. That's great. If he's done other stuff as well produced as this, I'd love to see it. ***
I was surprised by Ross being a comics fan as well. I only remember him from a show that used to air late at night, Incredibly Strnage Films. At least, I think it was Ross. His Incredibly Strange show gave us in the states (and those in the UK) their first glimpse of Chackie Chan and his action films.
Edited by John Angelo on 22 September 2007 at 9:04pm
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14191
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 7
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Characters like Shade and Blue Beetle were also overlooked in this documentary.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11295
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 4:39am | IP Logged | 8
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Dave,the show was on BBC4,which is a minority digital channel(mainly focusing on the arts),nowhere near as mainstream as BBC1 or 2,i think the fact that Ross was involved would have liitle effect on who watched it.I only knew about it by reading about it on this site,that`s how little it was promoted!
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13697
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 7:21am | IP Logged | 9
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Great documentary. I'm very glad this was made and very thankful for YouTube!
I can't imagine being the co-creator of Spider-Man and wanting nothing more to do with it. Oh well, it seems Ditko leads the life he wants to live.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11295
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 10
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They forgot to mention Ditko`s run on Machine Man and Captain Universe.
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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 6782
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 11
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It'd be good if Ross did a series of these documentaries.
I enjoyed this as Jonathan, as presenter, was thoroughly invested in the subject and that's great to see.
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Brad Brickley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8289
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 12
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I think they just focused mainly on the three or four characters that the public would have the best chance of knowing or what was important to know about Ditko.
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