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Gregory Dickens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 291
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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For me, it's aging the Teen Titans. It ruined the conceit of keeping the characters static while time passed behind them, and the best parts of the DC universe are now at odds about what also ages and what stays at a set age.
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Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 2
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Businesswise: Carmine Infantino overreacting to "declining sales" and jettisoning blossoming titles that might have given Marvel a run for their money ie "The DC Implosion?"
Creatively: Shattering the Alternate Earths in CRISIS. Killing Barry Allen.
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Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9846
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 3
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Crisis
There was so much that went wrong with this:
= everything could have been left as it was without there being any
issues; as a fan in the 70s, the multiple earths were never a problem, and
even when I was 8 years old and reading stories set with multiple earths, I
had little trouble tracking things; and even as they added new earths
every year or so to include more heroes, I had no problem understanding
things;
= things could have been cleaned up with some editorial commands and
decent writing: stop referring to certain stories or characters, etc;
= but once the decision was made to have the Infinite Crisis, that needed
to be the line in the sand: from this point on, this is how these characters
and stories will be handled, here is the wholly thought out backstory that
will help you start things off, now . . . GO
= but once writers/artists/editors started going off with thei ill-conceived
stories and plans, it made it even more of a mess;
= and then all of the events since to shore up or counter the original
mess . . . oh, the horror
But don't get me started.
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Brendan Howard
Byrne Robotics Member
FAQ Master Supreme
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4943
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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Sending Robin off to college was probably the biggest mistake. He should have remained in his mid-teens forever.
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James Hanson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2006
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 5
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Kurt, DC has owned Captain Marvel for much longer than that if I'm not
mistaken. They have missed the boat on so many occasions with a
character that if marketed correctly could have resulted in an icon
Well, they did get CC Beck when they brought him over-- can't do better
than that.
What do you think they can do to make Cap a viable property again? I
think that he's too similar to Superman to really become an "icon"-- every
civilian I know that sees him thinks he's a Superman knock off (BTW, I
love Cap, not knocking him).
I see that there's a possibility that this type of character will just never be
popular like he was in the 40's again-- he might be too goofy for a this
generation.
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David Kingsley Kingsley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1098
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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I guess I'd say that DC's biggest mistake was not competing with Marvel's film division. DC is owned by a film studio, for crying out loud. Has Ghost Rider actually managed to surpass the business of Superman Returns?
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Brendan Howard
Byrne Robotics Member
FAQ Master Supreme
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4943
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 7
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Unfortunately, "Captain Marvel" is now a confusing name even for civilians, who suddenly seem to know what Marvel means in the context of superheroes. Plus "Shazam" still has the Jim Nabors connotation after all these years. Taking that baggage into account, I think it will be extremely difficult for the character to truly become a major icon again.
That said, I can see the Captain Marvel franchise working in a more cartoony style like the digests that I see at the supermarket counter (Archie, Disney Adventures, etc). Captain Marvel would need to operate on an Earth-S without Superman or any other heroes, and the stories should concentrate on the wish-fufillment aspects of the character. (What would a 10-year-old boy do if he could become Superman?)
I would miss seeing Black Adam, who has become enormously interesting in JSA and 52, but no other aspect of the Shazamverse has ever worked for me in the DC Universe.
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Thomas Moudry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 8
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I really think the lack of big-budget movies to compete with Marvel's
offerings (that ain't always so good but make money) is astonishing. Much
like "Spider-Man," "Superman Returns" was in development for years before
it was finally made, but end-result didn't really please the masses or the
fans (even though I liked it a lot). The very notion that "Wonder Woman"
can't seem to get made is ridiculous, and why bother announcing a "Justice
League" film if not much is being done? I remember hearing something
about "Ghost Rider," and then, boom, there's a "Ghost Rider" film on the way.
Seems strange that Time/Warner/AOL/whatever can't seem to poo or get off
the pot.
Edited by Thomas Moudry on 21 May 2007 at 3:01pm
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Brendan Howard
Byrne Robotics Member
FAQ Master Supreme
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4943
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 9
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David Kingsley Kingsley wrote:
| I guess I'd say that DC's biggest mistake was not competing with Marvel's film division. DC is owned by a film studio, for crying out loud. Has Ghost Rider actually managed to surpass the business of Superman Returns? |
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Well, no. Ghost Rider made $115 million and Superman Returns made $200 million. GR made a small profit while SR lost quite a bit of money due to its production costs. Is that what you meant?
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5741
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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For so long my answer would have been "Emerald Twilight" (but not the character Kyle Raynor). Now, put me down as saying CRISIS. At the time I enjoyed it (and still do when reading it now), but what a mess it created!
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William Lukash
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1405
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 11
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Trying to out Marvel Marvel. How many rape/murders/rape-murders do I really need to see in one month?
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David Kingsley Kingsley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1098
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| Posted: 21 May 2007 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 12
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Brendan, I was honestly curious if Ghost Rider had turned more of a profit than Superman Returns, which, according to you, it actually has. Sorry I phrased my initial post, poorly.
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Topic Closed)
