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Hunter McFalls
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 681
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| Posted: 07 May 2007 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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In my opinion this issue is another example of JB's genius.
Not only are we faced with Reed's terrible conflict but we also feel the drama (trauma) of Dock Ock and his obsession with Spider-Man. One of my favorite scenes are the pages when Doc Ock's arms come alive. I especially love the drawing of the carnage and the guards, their uniforms, equipment everything.
The storytelling is masterful.
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Brian Tait
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1817
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| Posted: 07 May 2007 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | 2
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I had just come back to comics three months earlier with ASM #250. This was my first FF purchased off the rack in years. I knew nothing about what was going on at the time. Sue was pregnant? Doc Ock in an FF book?
I get to the end and .....WHAM! What a punch in the gut.
A fantastic issue and thirteen years later it still packs a punch.
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Hunter McFalls
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 681
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 12:14am | IP Logged | 3
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Also to re-interate on my earlier post; to my knowledge, before this issue,
I do not remember a story involving The Fantastic Four vs Dock Ock.
JB takes this potentially never done face off, and instead of just having Doc Ock rob a bank or take over a Nuclear Power Plant, JB weaves Doc Ock into the real life plotline of Reed and Sue and not only gives Otto more character by showing his weakness but makes him a tragic character that the reader feels for. An ugly villian whose mind has been distorted by radiation.
I'm not sure that at this point in comic history that this angle has ever been written before for Doc Ock. Not sure. Anyway making Doc Ock a tragic character is part and parcel akin to the Greek plays and tragedies.
Add that to the fact that Reed fails in his quest to save his baby and not only do you have a Classic Greek Tragedy story the story in and of it self is a work of art.
Its the meat and potatoes story that cats like Socrates and Plato would applaud to back in da' day.
I keep this issue along with my other John Byrne Fantastic Four close to my reading area. Off and on I have had these issues within arms length for over 20 years.
Edited by Hunter McFalls on 08 May 2007 at 1:40am
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Corey Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2021
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 12:23am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
The last page/panel still hits me like a punch in the
gut.
****
I wonder -- in the Age of the Internet, if I did that shot
today, would there be gripes about me being "lazy"
for not filling up the whole page? |
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A twist on the old "Byrne doesn't do backgrounds" saw?
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised.
This is the first time I'd ever seen a single comic book panel set on a black background like that. I wonder if you'd seen this done before somewhere else JB or did this just occur to you out of the blue?
The black really magnifies the emotion in the scene.
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Simon Anderson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 175
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 5:11am | IP Logged | 5
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As a teenager this issue didn't really "affect" me at the time (although I did think it was a damn good issue). The last time I read it was a few years back, after I had become a father. The difference was amazing and the ending really, really hit me. Now, after losing our son at the eight month stage last year, I don't think that I can ever read it again.
I suppose that that's a compliment to JB's writing skills.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133894
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 6
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This is the first time I'd ever seen a single comic book panel set on a black background like that. I wonder if you'd seen this done before somewhere else JB or did this just occur to you out of the blue?*** Nothing happens in a vacuum, even if that vacuum is inside my head! I am much influenced by British artist Frank Bellamy (HEROS THE SPARTAN, DAN DARE, GARTH), and Bellamy was one who always made even something as seemingly insignificant as the panel borders serve his story telling. I have copped a couple of his ideas several times over my career, and while I am not aware of him (or anyone else, for that matter) ever doing the single-panel-set-in-black shot, I have no doubt it was his influence at work when I came up with the idea myself.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 5:30am | IP Logged | 7
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JB takes this potentially never done face off, and instead of just having Doc Ock rob a bank or take over a Nuclear Power Plant, JB weaves Doc Ock into the real life plotline of Reed and Sue and not only gives Otto more character by showing his weakness but makes him a tragic character that the reader feels for. An ugly villian whose mind has been distorted by radiation. I'm not sure that at this point in comic history that this angle has ever been written before for Doc Ock. *** You've just described Otto Octavius as created by Lee and Ditko -- a brilliant scientist twisted by "cruel Fate". I took that as my core for his characterization in this story.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5101
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 8
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Doctor Otto Octavius vs. Reed Richards how can you go wrong?
It was a belter of a story.
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David Parker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 January 2007
Posts: 375
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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Considering that Sue didn't actually lose the baby, this issue doesn't pack quite the same punch it used to.
I don't know what's worse, Alicia was a Skrull, or "Valeria" survived! I'm surprised that kid who burned to death in FF 285 hasn't come back as a villian with a grudge against the Human Torch.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| I'm surprised that kid who burned to death in FF 285 hasn't come back as a villian with a grudge against the Human Torch. |
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Please don't give anyone any ideas.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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You've just described Otto Octavius as created by Lee and Ditko -- a brilliant scientist twisted by "cruel Fate". I took that as my core for his characterization in this story.
++++++++
Yeah, I love Ock's original characterization, and feel that it was well served by this FF story. A brilliant guy who was twisted into an arrogant, paranoid megalomaniac.
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Gordon Somers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 522
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| Posted: 08 May 2007 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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To my mind this was always the best written Fantastic Four story without the FF in the whole book ever. Whenever I need some inspiration for my art - my well thumbed copy of FF 267 gets pulled out again and again as to how storytelling should be done. Sure JB would do it ten times better today artwise, but back then it seemed like an absolute masterclass in how it should be done. I have been waiting to get to this issue...
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