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Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3299
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 1
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Actually, there was a recent storyline in Teen Titans that tried to explain why some DC notables were apparently coming back from the dead (Kid Eternity was being used as an unwilling doorstop between the living world and the beyond). Whether or not that was a unviersal DC thing to just for TT, I don't know.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 2
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I'm so tired of hearing about retcons, retcons, retcons! I just want good stories.
***
Amen! Far too many comic storylines start with an agenda (changing, 'fixing' or constantly explaining things) rather than simply telling stories where changes occur naturally. CRISIS, which was supposed to streamline and simplify DC, made these kinds of stories widespread at DC; I don't know what Marvel's problem is.
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8101
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 3
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The problem with the Legion being reintroduced as a part of Superman's childhood is that it leaves the many confused Legion histories even more confused then they already are.
I really, really, really dislike how the current DCU is apparently being moulded by folks who are basically trying to satisfy their nostalgia instinct by resetting the clock to how things were in their childhood.
I'll be selfish about it. The Superman of the last twenty years, the John Byrne Superman, is also MY Superman, and he's basically been wiped away just like that.
And yeah, that irks me a little.
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James Hanson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2006
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 4
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I'm sick of them constantly needing to alter the past as well. Just ignore what
you dislike without contradicting it and tell the story. Stan and Jack didn't
spend time trying to deal with Cap's continuity--they just wrote awesome
Cap stories.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134007
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm sick of them constantly needing to alter the past as well. Just ignore what you dislike without contradicting it and tell the story. Stan and Jack didn't spend time trying to deal with Cap's continuity--they just wrote awesome Cap stories. *** Ah, but here we come to the o-so-important difference between Stan and Jack's generation, and (increasingly) those who came after. Stan and Jack may have loved comics, but they were not fans. Their attachment came from a whole different set of emotions, and, as such, they did not feel the need to crawl up into their own behinds in search of stories. They were not, as Julie Schwartz so aptly dubbed many who came after, "archeologists". If we take the fan-turned-pro attitude so prevalent in the industry today, and apply it retroactively, everything that drew most of us to superhero comics in the first place pretty much disappears. The Silver Age does not happen, because Green Lantern, the Flash, Hawkman, et al do not get recreated, they get brought back, in their original forms, with six or seven years added. Then the stories start exploring where they were and what they were up to for those "missing" years. Not a la HIDDEN YEARS, where it's just one title -- all the books. Look what happened after "The Flash of Two Worlds", very possibly the last gasp of the true "Silver Age". And why did Hawkman get those silly wings on his helmet? All fan-think. All the kind of stuff that would never occur to Stan and Jack. The closest they ever got was bringing back Captain America -- and that they did by ignoring "continuity"!!
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Michael Kennedy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 242
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 6
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Zaki Hasan wrote:
I'll be selfish about it. The Superman of the last twenty years, the
John Byrne Superman, is also MY Superman, and he's basically been wiped
away just like that.
It's like I told someone on another comic message board, around the time Infinite Crisis was coming to a head: 20 years from now, when the fans of Post-Crisis DC and the Man of Steel Superman come into power, they will have yet another Crisis of their own, to restore the characters of their childhood back to "the way they are supposed to be." The vicious cycle will continue...
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| I'll be selfish about it. The Superman of the last twenty years, the
John Byrne Superman, is also MY Superman, and he's basically been wiped
away just like that. |
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It's no different than what happened in 1986, when the Superman of the Weisinger/Schwartz years was "wiped away, just like that." And that guy had been around almost thirty years.
And the new reboot is somewhat less drastic than the '86 reboot -- it's clear that various stories from the "post-CRISIS" era are still part of the "new" Superman's backstory, albeit somewhat modified.
As for the Legion in the JLA/JSA crossover not being the Legion in the current LEGION book. I'm sure this will be explained. Maybe on "New Earth," young Clark Kent first appears in the 31st
century after Supergirl returns to the 21st century? And the statues in
the Fortress represent the Waid/Kitson Legion's future?
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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I don't think Johns and Meltzer (or Busiek, over on Superman) are being archeologists in this case. They simply like the Silver Age Superman mythology and are bringing it back, in somewhat altered/updated form. And they're not bringing back anything obscure, really. Bringing back "Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes" (minus the "Superboy" name, due to legal reasons) hardly seems like "archeology." Especially not when there's a Saturday morning cartoon out now based on it!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134007
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 9
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Bringing back "Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes" (minus the "Superboy" name, due to legal reasons) hardly seems like "archeology.*** The last time Superboy had anything to do with the Legion was 20 years ago. If that doesn't seem like "archeology" to you, you have been reading comics far too long. As I have said many times, I don't care if they wipe away every trace of every book I have ever worked on. I just wish they'd stop doing so by pressing the REWIND button. That's just creative bankruptcy.
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Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 10
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Exactly. The rewind button is what causes all these messes and aggravation. Bringing back a character or concept from the past can be fine, under the right circumstances. I see no need to "rewrite history" to accomplish this. It just seems like performing brain surgery to fix a hangnail.
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8101
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 11
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And the statues in
the Fortress represent the Waid/Kitson Legion's future?
*****
Not unless Starboy magically changes race at some point between the distant future and the even more distant future.
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9101
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| Posted: 26 April 2007 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 12
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IMO, I look at it as "righting a wrong".
Besides, the fanboy in me gave out a silient cheer when I saw Wildfire.
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Topic Closed)
