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David Whiteley
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2748
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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Good write-up, Greg.
Part of what bothers me is the retroactive aspect. I still hate the idea of
making Hulk a killer like this, but would have less of a problem if we saw
it happen in an issue and then events unfolded rather than "he's been
killing people, let's ship him out / cover it up."
When do we find out about all the people killed when Ice-Man's icy ramps
collapse? Maybe a crook left hanging in Spider-Man's webbing had a
heart-attack due to fear of heights. What about Vincent Von Doom,
Victor's never-before-seen-brother who killed himself due to envying
Reed Richards? Like Greg says, as soon as you try to drag in realism as to
what SHOULD happen (and apply it backwards, in these cases) you are on
a slippery slope. I mean, cool as it looked, it isn't realistic for Hulk to
sweep up the tarmac like a rug.
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 2
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Poor ignorant moronic Bendis and all the work he gets and comics he sells.
**********
Rob Liefeld
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Greg Kirkpatrick
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Joined: 15 June 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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The (apparently non-canon) story, Startling Stories: Banner dealt head-on with this idea, as I recall
*****
Not apparently, definitely. The whole premise of Startling Stories I believe. And judging by the ending, it would have to be non-canon.
It did deal with this and it was an okay book. Nothing more.
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Glenn Greenberg
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 4
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<<It is later writers that made the Hulk kill, even accidentally, innocents
(or even villains).>>
One of the writers who wrote a proposal for THE RAMPAGING HULK comic
book series from 1998 made this a major story point for his version of
the series. He would have established that the Hulk had caused
numerous deaths all along, all the way back to his early days, but Rick
Jones kept it hidden from Banner because he knew that Banner would not
have been able to live with himself if he knew that he was responsible for
the deaths of other people.
(I guess this writer didn't think Banner was smart enough to read a
newspaper or turn on a television set.)
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David Whiteley
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 5
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Okay, if it is non-canonical I don't have as much a problem with that story
then. Thanks for clarifying that.
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Greg Kirkman
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Joined: 12 May 2006
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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When do we find out about all the people killed when Ice-Man's icy ramps
collapse? Maybe a crook left hanging in Spider-Man's webbing had a
heart-attack due to fear of heights. What about Vincent Von Doom,
Victor's never-before-seen-brother who killed himself due to envying
Reed Richards? Like Greg says, as soon as you try to drag in realism as to
what SHOULD happen (and apply it backwards, in these cases) you are on
a slippery slope.
++++++++++++
Exactly. As a wise man has said, we must accept the conceits of the genre or find another hobby.
Paradoxically, the more realistic superhero comics become, the less believable they are.
Once writers start asking these kinds of questions, the characters begin to plunge down that slippery slope.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 27 February 2007 at 4:10pm
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Brian Rhodes
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think the Hulk having not killed in his many rampages is one of the conceits we accept as comic readers (or should), like Clark Kent's glasses and "slickered back" hair being an adequate disguise.
This is something both the TV show and movie got right: The creature won't kill because Banner won't kill.
SPOILERS:
Okay, well...he killed the Hulk Dogs in the film. But his other "victims" (Talbot and Dad) brought on their own deaths.
Edited by Brian Rhodes on 27 February 2007 at 1:56pm
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Greg Kirkpatrick
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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Rob Liefeld
****
Yeah, Rob still manages to sell a lot of books. How does that make him a moron or ignorant. Despite how much folks dislike a creator (and it is alwyas kewl to dis a popular creator) he sells a lot of books and keeps getting jobs.
No one said the universe made sense.
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Daniel Gillotte
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 9
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Good discussion...
I think that the "potential" damage and destruction that the Hulk can cause would be enough reason for the government to want to send him off planet. In the Marvel Universe, after all, the fear of mutants is really all about that. I don't think that he needs to have killed anyone per se for the powers that be to be worried about him. It does seem like we have to suspend disbelief in this (and with all super powerful characters) Of course, there is collateral damage, how couldn't there be? But, in comics, we have to assume that people were safely evacuated or something.
I have been wondering lately, if the Hulk is as destructive as he is sometimes portrayed, why the other heroes of Marvel Earth haven't taken him down. Some of them consider him their pal! I guess he must not be that destructive after all.
I think that the portrayal of the Hulk for most of his life as a monster that just wants to be left alone by the puny humans works to keep the issue of whether the Hulk kills or not. He wants to be left alone and will strike out, but only against those who use force against him. So, he knocks some tanks around or some guys in mechanized armor, maybe smashes a cop car, but I don't think he kills.
Why can't they just leave Hulk alone?
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Kevin Hagerman
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 10
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Even the makers of the God-Damned A-Team knew that the protagonists couldn't be killers or the whole thing would fall apart.
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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Be on the lookout for Ultimate A-Team, which will correct that oversight.
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David Whiteley
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| Posted: 27 February 2007 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 12
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Who the hell do you think we are? We're the God-Damned A-Team!
edit - post 2300!
Edited by David Whiteley on 27 February 2007 at 2:27pm
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Topic Closed)
