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Landry Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2006
Posts: 510
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| Posted: 01 March 2007 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 1
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David Whiteley: "Similar to the way you ignored everything prior to the "Again, show me the
completed act or the body" line of mine"
Not in the slightest. I addressed your question repeatedly. I never
claimed the Hulk was a murderer. What in the world would I ever need to
produce the corpse for? You seem to think (despite my clarifying a
minimum for you three times otherwise) that I'm arguing that the Hulk
is a killer. I never made that claim. Willing to kill is not synonomous
with killing, and a body is not required to suggest or even prove
intent.
David Whiteley: "If he was so intent on killing... well,
he's had 40 issues to seal the deal."
An issue I addressed long ago now.
David Whiteley: "As for alternatives, despite your "tea party" scenario which would be enough
to have anyone decide NOT to address that scene"
Heaven forbid we treat the subject with humor.
David Whiteley: "Oh, and your gun analogy assumes that the person using the gun was going
to shoot to kill rather than to injure (a possibility)."
It's certainly possible that the intent of the character was to
threaten rather than act. But it's a much bigger reach than the
suggestion that he was prepared to kill and found himself balked by his
own limitations. Between the two possibilities, the Hulk resorting to
nothing but bluff in that instance seems quite unlikely.
Michael Roberts: "How does a gun-toting Batman or the silly 60s time-traveling,
alien-fighting Batman betray the character? Was he no longer motivated
by the death of his parents to become Batman? Did he stop fighting for
justice?"
So how does an effeminate gun toting Batman betray the character? Is he no longer motivated
by the death of his parents to become Batman? Does he stop fighting for
justice?
Michael Roberts: "I'm not familiar with your Superman reference? Was this an instance of
Superman being a bigot or was it Superman reflecting the prejudices of
American society at the time?"
Reflection. Superman was quite often a sexist jerk.
Edited by L. Walker on 01 March 2007 at 11:00pm
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David Whiteley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 01 March 2007 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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"Between the two possibilities, the Hulk resorting to nothing but bluff in that
instance seems quite unlikely."
With kids as the larger readership of comics, the threat of violence to shut
Rick up would definitely be seen as an effective one. Seems to work for
bullies.
And I was referring to the comments I made about "We can assume that
almost any character might be "willing to kill" depending on circumstances."
Do you feel all heroes are willing to kill? Many of them have made threats at
some time in fits of anger.
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Landry Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2006
Posts: 510
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| Posted: 01 March 2007 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | 3
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David Whiteley: "And I was referring to the comments I made about "We can assume that
almost any character might be "willing to kill" depending on circumstances."
Do you feel all heroes are willing to kill? Many of them have made threats at
some time in fits of anger."
I already answered this. If a character tries
to kill and is stopped by an outside force, I would consider them
willing to kill. If a character threatens or considers the act, I would
not hold that up as proof of intent.
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David Whiteley
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 01 March 2007 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | 4
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You haven't proven Hulk tried to kill at all.
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Landry Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 01 March 2007 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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David Whiteley: "You haven't proven Hulk tried to kill at all."
I didn't say I had. I was politely answering your question about general attitudes with a
general explanation. How nice of you to erroneously (and rather
antagonistically) apply it to the specific considering I already
conceded your explanation for motive was a possibility.
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David Whiteley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 01 March 2007 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | 6
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Wasn't intending to be antagonistic. I should have written "Hulk meant to
kill" above though, sorry.
That was replying to the last time you referred to Hulk killing or being
willing to you said, "Between the two possibilities, the Hulk resorting to
nothing but bluff in that instance seems quite unlikely" and the follow-up "If
a character tries to kill and is stopped by an outside force, I would consider
them willing to kill."
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Brad Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 December 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1714
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| Posted: 01 March 2007 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 7
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You say tomayto, I say tomahto...
One writer will may Hulk innocent of everything, another guilty of murder.
The Hulk jumped the shark for me with McFarlane.
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Landry Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 02 March 2007 at 12:01am | IP Logged | 8
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Apologies if I was being over sensitive.
I've conceded that your interpretation is possible. I think unlikely,
but it is possible. Therefore, it should be clear that at this point
I'm not holding any of my argument as definitive proof of the Hulks
intent. The second quote you pull from me is simply me trying to answer
your general question. I do think that a character that does
try to kill and is stopped by an outside force is showing a willingness
to kill. I think a character who considers the act without an attempt
to follow through has not shown the same willingness.
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Landry Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 510
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| Posted: 02 March 2007 at 12:03am | IP Logged | 9
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Brad Hague:
McFarlane art I assume? Did he ever write the title?
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Eric Joseph Hernandez
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Joined: 07 December 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 306
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| Posted: 02 March 2007 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 10
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Having gone back and looking through old Hulk stories, here's one where he caused the death of a human villian, Tales To Astonish # 76 (I think the one where he fights Hercules on the cover) In there, he "accidently" causes the death of one Dr. Zaxxon, after he takes away his weapon and throws it away. It hits a near by wall, and it shoots the villian to death. The Hulk understood what he did, he says something along the lines: "Little man dead."
Edited by Eric Joseph Hernandez on 02 March 2007 at 12:17am
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David Whiteley
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| Posted: 02 March 2007 at 12:17am | IP Logged | 11
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No worries, L, I know that I've misread stuff here and have no problem
clarifying or letting someone know if I misinterpreted. I misread that second
comment, thinking it was a follow-up about Hulk. No harm.
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Sam Karns
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Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: 02 March 2007 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 12
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McFarlane art I assume? Did he ever write the title?
*****
It was Peter David.
Edited by Sam Karns on 02 March 2007 at 12:25am
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