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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7624
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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Is there a link to the full interview, Wallace?
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 2
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Sam, Michael Roberts posted the link to the interview on page 5 of this thread.
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7624
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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Thanks it was a good interview, Aaron.
Slott is wrong on one thing. The Hulk did kill a deer in issue # 314.
The panel of The Hulk ripping a man in two was in what issue?
Edited by Sam Karns on 01 March 2007 at 4:10pm
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David Kingsley Kingsley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1098
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 4
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"So it's out of character for The Hulk to kill because it would muddy the code of The Mighty Avengers? They wouldn't have a mass murderer join their organization to protect and serve the world."
A follow-up question to this poster's point: Is Namor a killer? Did any of his attempts to overthrow the surface world result in the death of innocent civilian casualties?
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David Whiteley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 2748
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 5
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"There is no hard fast rule that bystanders escape from harms way unless
specifically shown otherwise. I've never made that assumption and I'm
uncertain why you have."
Because something as important as people being killed would have been
addressed by the real Marvel.
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Landry Walker Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2006 Posts: 510
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 6
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Matt Hawes: "I don't know, L. Why don't you consult Stan Lee? It's obvious that
the Hulk didn't like Rick Jones knowing his secret, but whether or not
the Hulk would've murdered Rick is not stated in any way."
It's implicit. What other intent would you ascribe to him?
Matt Hawes: "After all,
L., if Hulk wanted to murder Rick, why did he continue to let Rick
live? Explanation?"
Pretty easy one there. After a point, the need to have someone help
protect him in his identity as Banner would become obvious.
Furthermore, the intent to kill Rick was out of a desire to keep his
secret. Rick had the chance afterwards to expose the secret and did not.
Therefore the need no longer existed.
Matt Hawes: "One panel, where the barest suggestion is made (never stated by
anyone in the book) that the Hulk would "silence" Rick by force, even
murder, is not enough evidence to prove that is the way the character
should be written."
I'm not trying to prove any such thing nor do I need to. The character,
as originally portrayed, included a an amoral drive that would include
silencing someone by force. You can shroud that in supposed ambiguity
all you like, it still implies murder. Should the character be written
as a murderer now? I never claimed any such thing. But he was not
originally innocent character seeking isolation, as some have claimed.
Matt Hawes: "Again, if the Hulk was a murderer, why did Rick Jones still live the next time Banner became the Hulk?"
Easily addressed above.
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Greg Kirkpatrick Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2193
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 7
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The panel of The Hulk ripping a man in two was in what issue?
****
I assume you are referencing that infamous shot from Ultimate Hulk and Wolverine # 1. Well, at least he didn't die.
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7624
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 8
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It would complicate things since EVERYONE knows Bruce Banner is THE HULK. I was never comfortable with that idea. Putting killer in Banner's resume' should make him a most wanted criminal.
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16498
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 9
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Greg wrote:
...I read that scene as the Hulk about to make a move on Rick (perhaps to attack/kill him), but then he is prevented by the sunrise (and his first transformation back to Banner).
"As for you, you are the only one who knows who I really am!"
Of course, this was never followed up on. Instead, the Hulk was usually just mouthy towards Rick from then on... |
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Exactly. No murder threat was actually made, and even the suggestion of such a threat was dropped in the very same comic and never followed up on, as you note.
Hardly, I'd say, a character-defining moment.
When determining if a character is "out of character," you have to judge such things by how the character has been consistently portrayed once the actual characterization had been fully in place.
For many decades, Batman was not a killer, and did not use a gun, and doing so would have been grossly out of character. This, in spite of the fact that Batman had used a gun and killed in his earliest appearances. Batman was still being developed, and those early issues were his formative years as a character. The "real" Batman would not surface until a bit later.
This is the same with the Hulk. The Hulk was not meant to be a killer, once the Hulk was fully developed. Even in that first issue, the Hulk does not kill anyone, nor is there any way of knowing (short of asking Stan Lee) if the Hulk really intended to kill Rick Jones, or would have actually done so, in that first issue. I'd say that the fact Hulk didn't kill Rick when he had the chance to do so later in the same book proves he was not meant to be a killer.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 01 March 2007 at 4:37pm
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David Whiteley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 2748
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 10
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Okay, people compare him to a force of nature. A tornado in the real
world today made headlines for killing one. Where are the similar
headlines for Hulk?
Marvel comics have often depicted the heroes ensuring bystanders are
protected in battles. Whether it is Thor creating a tornado-effect to sweep
away debris, Captain America leaping into a burning building to save
trapped people, or Iron Man using his repulsor rays to blast rubble away,
it is a tradition that threats to life and limb are taken care of. Enough
examples have been given that one can assume that threats to life and
limb are taken care of or not an issue. Assuming people die is just that -
an assumption. Does not make it so.
Oh, and lots of heroes have been torn about killing villains, that does not
make them killers so the Hulk / Rick Jones example trotted out from
issue one doesn't hold weight.
One thing I am curious about is why some people seem so set on
establishing Hulk is a killer. Surely it cannot just be a case of wanting
realism. I know this thread will drag on for pages with examples given as
to why people think HUlk has killed. Bottom line - show us the bodies,
the people dying from those issues and you'll have proven he is a killer.
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16498
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 11
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L.Walker wrote:
...But he was not originally innocent character seeking isolation, as some have claimed... |
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I never said the original Hulk was "innocent." I said he was thugish. I said he just wanted to be left alone, and he did. He wanted to go and hide. Rick followed him. Rick always followed the Hulk in those early issues because he felt responsible for what happened to Bruce Banner. But, yes, according to what is written, the Hulk go wanted to go away from everyone. It's not like he became the Hulk and then decided, "Ok, I'm going to rip Rick Jones in half like a ragdoll."
Edited by Matt Hawes on 01 March 2007 at 4:41pm
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17698
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Posted: 01 March 2007 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 12
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Sam, did that deer's neck break or was it simply dislocated?
Hmmm?
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