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Topic: Stories that should NEVER be told.. (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 1  

I'd go along by saying that WATCHMEN is not a "superhero story"-- it IS still a terrific story…

***

Is it? Not being snarky here -- but what makes WATCHMEN a "terrific story"?

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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 2  

I think too many creators try to make their mark by killing a character (usually one they didn't create). It strikes me as cheap. I can't remember anything about Kevin Smith's DAREDEVIL arc other than that Karen Page was killed. On the other hand, Frank Miller's Elektra storyline in DAREDEVIL stands out even without the death of Elektra (and in that case, Miller introduced the character and was the one who made us care about her).

It's incredibly short-sighted to kill a character because there are "no more stories left." If that's really the case, then write out the character. I remember when Stan Lee would have Aunt May off in Florida for an extended period.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 3  

There was a dramatic turn-around that happened in the late 70s. When the X-Men were rebooted with GIANT-SIZED 1, just about everybody hated Wolverine. The mail was all "Have him leave and bring back the Beast!" (Chris told me this.)

When Kitty Pryde was introduced, about 5 years later, everybody hated her, too -- but this time the mail was all "Kill her! Kill her!" Nobody wanted Kitty to leave -- they wanter her dead.

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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 4  

Peter wasn't in any way responsible for Gwen's death the way he was for Uncle Ben's, Thomas. And I'm not sure how it "redoubled" Peter's efforts to do the right thing. He failed to save Gwen, but not for trying--Uncle Ben died because of Peter's selfishness. Gwen died because she happened to be his girlfriend and Osborn knew it. Big difference.
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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 5  

Right on the money, Stephen. If that was the prevailing attitude in comics, Aunt May and Harry Osborn might never have been killed off (or Karen Page, for that matter).

 

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Mike Norris
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 6  

I'm liking a lot of what Bruebakers is doing on Captain America, but like others the Bucky thing doesn't seem right. Not just bringing the character back but changing who he is and what motivates him. Not as the Winter Soldier, but as Bucky Barnes. Bucky was the cheerful kid sidekick nowhe's a black ops guy trained to do the "dirty work" a symbol like Captain America can't do. He was a kid who stumbled onto Steve Roger's secret and proved him self worthy not only to keep that secret, but to fight at Captain America's side. Now he's a guy assigned to Captain America by the government. Its part of the creeping "realism" that seems intent on sucking the fun and fanstasy out of superhero comics. Also gone is the father/son or at least big brother relationship between Cap and Buck. Now they seem to be just  partners of similar age.  

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 7  

You touch on something very important here, Mike. Often, it seems, when a writer wants to "bring back" a character, what they really want to do is hook their own character into the established lore of somebody else. (I recall being appalled, back in the 70s, when a writer I knew told me he planned to reveal that his lame-ass character eventually "grew up" to become a long established figure in that particular universe. It was the first time I became fully cognizant of this kind of shameless coat-tail riding.)

Once in a blue moon this approach can actually work -- Ditko's Blue Beetle, for instance, or Johnny Storm as the Human Torch -- but mostly… it's an approach best avoided.

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James Hanson
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 8  

Is it? Not being snarky here -- but what makes WATCHMEN a "terrific story"?

I'm not expert of literature, but I know what entertains me. I found all the characters interesting and believable, the plot held my interest the entire way thru, and the backstory and history for the character to be fascinating. I can't put my finger on why I love it, I could conjure up a bunch of nonsense about story structure and depth and symbolism, but I like it for the same reason I like anything else. I just do.

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James Revilla
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 9  

Not to be even more snarky...there is a difference between an entertaining story and a good story. I agree Watchmen is entertaining and engaging, but it has more flash going for it than substance in my opinion.
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James Hanson
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 10  

How so?
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Leigh Hunt
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 11  

Am i the only one person on here that does actually enjoy characters changing over time, having real-time events affect them, finds well-written character deaths (and yes resurrections) exciting and fun to read?
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James Hanson
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Posted: 04 February 2007 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 12  

Watchmen is a graphic novel—a book-length comic book with ambitions above its station—starring a ragbag of bizarre, damaged, retired superheroes: the paunchy, melancholic Nite Owl; the raving doomsayer Rorschach; the blue, glowing, near-omnipotent, no-longer-human Doctor Manhattan. Though their heyday is past, these former crime-fighters are drawn back into action by the murder of a former teammate, The Comedian, which turns out to be the leading edge of a much wider, more disturbing conspiracy. Told with ruthless psychological realism, in fugal, overlapping plotlines and gorgeous, cinematic panels rich with repeating motifs, Watchmen is a heart-pounding, heartbreaking read and a watershed in the evolution of a young medium.—L.G.

That's from TIME's list of best English language novels from 1923 to the present.



Edited by James Hanson on 04 February 2007 at 1:14pm
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