| Posted: 21 January 2007 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 3
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Wade:Anyone reading back in the 80s who didn't have a gaydar or know JBs intentions would think that Northstar was "turned" gay in #107.
Matt: John has said, many times on this very site, that Northstar was gay. He always intended him to be gay. He's the creator of the character.
What does that have to do with someone reading the comic back in the 80s before the revelation? Nothing. Maybe some people caught JBs hints and some didn’t. I didn’t and I don’t think I am alone.
Matt:That you don't want to read the FAQ that points to this fact because it's too much work for you shouldn't detract from the truth of the statement that the original creator of the character always saw said character as gay no matter if it happened during his original run or 100 issues later.
I did read it when it was originally pointed out by another poster and as I said that FAQ page didn’t provide any of the “hints” JB gave that occurred below the comics code gaydar screen. Btw, did the comics code miss those hints?
Matt: In the end, what "signs" should you have been aware of, Wade? Being gay is no more different than being straight. It's just a different life choice.
Actually, we are talking about a super-hero comic book being read by people of which the vast majority aren’t (or the 80s were not) gay or had been exposed to the gay lifestyle. People of which a high percentage were kids or teenagers who were just looking for some kick ass action and would probably miss any subtle hints to Northstar’s gayness.
Matt: I can tell you that I've been around people who, on the outside, appeared straight for many years until such a time as they came out and told me they were gay. Why can't we accept that the same could be true of Northstar?
I guess we can, but that isn’t what the argument was about.
Wade: The real problem is when some gay sensitive people such as yourself call people ignorant just because they don't remember some subtle hints of Northstars gayness from a comic they read 20 years ago.
Matt: Bullshit. The "real problem" is someone, like yourself, speaking from a position of authority when, in reality, they can't even remember what it is they are referencing.
Now that is some serious bullshit Matt. I never claimed to be an authority on anything. I just said I don’t remember Northstar being gay prior to the revelation issue. I am sure I am not the only one in that boat.
Matt: It has nothing to do with being "gay sensitive" and everything to do with understanding that John Byrne has said, over and over again, that Northstar, as he created him, was always gay.
Who is disputing what John Byrne said? I am not. The fact that Mr. Byrne made it known to people 25 years after the fact on a website that he created Northstar to be gay doesn’t translate to people reading Alpha Flight 25 years ago knew North Star was gay.
Matt: That you may not have picked up on those cues, that you may not have seen anything that suggested this, in no way makes his eventual coming out of the closet "turning" the character gay.
That makes no sense Matt. Of course it makes the character “turning” gay in the eyes of someone who never perceived that character as gay in the first place. Do you think I am the only one who didn’t know Northstar was gay until the revelation? People who now know what JB’s intentions were from his website 25 years after the fact doesn’t translate to people reading the book in the 80s knowing JB’s intentions.
Matt: He is as he was when he was first created. The execution of his coming out of the closet may have been poorly handled by the creative team that was writing him at the time, but to say that this was a character that was formerly straight now turned gay for some sort of publicity stunt is absolutely and totally false.
Totally false in your eyes Matt. I remember the hype and the media attention at the time. Looked like a stunt to get sales on a failing comic to me. Did sales go up or down after the revelation issue? I know it was canceled by issue #130.
Wade: In fact, as OSPG says, it was a revelation.
Matt: Of course it was a revelation! He came out of the closet to the characters in the issue in question! I can't honestly believe that you're using the Overstreet Guide as evidence that Northstar was never supposed to be gay!
Once again you are making false claims about me Matt. Where did I say Northstar was never supposed to be gay? I didn’t! Why can’t I use OSPG as a reference? Are you saying it isn’t a good source for facts about comics?
Matt: It was a revelation to the other characters in his world, but not a revelation to those people who paid attention to how he was portrayed, not only by the creator of the character, but by everyone else who worked on him.
Says you Matt. I think outside the very small amount of people that were gay (or around the gay community) who might have read Alpha Flight in the 80s most people didn’t know until the revelation issue. I am not talking about people who know now and are looking back with that knowledge. You can spin it and say it was a revelation to the characters of his comicbook world if you want, but that is just your spin. However, it could be both a revelation in the comicbook world and the real world, couldn't it?
Matt: What? He should have run around with a rainbow uniform and shouted "I'M GAY!!" from the top of his lungs in every other issue?
No, just one issue would have been enough, and it was. OSPG calls it the revelation issue.
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Topic Closed)
