| Author |
|
Jo Harvatt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 July 2006
Posts: 1523
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
I would also be likely to be a lot more convinced by scientific arguments if they did not always fit so neatly with the conveniences of society and the accepted gender roles of the time.
In Victorian times women were denied access to education because science showed that their smaller brains could not cope with it and it would make their wombs overheat.For a long time they were the 'weaker' sex incapable of lifting anything heavier than a teacup (unless they were working class of course).
Then when the war came and workers were needed to replace the men who had been called up all of a sudden women were mysteriously capable of doing a 'man's' work after all - heavy lifting and all (not for a 'man's wage though obviously).
After the war when the men returned and wanted their jobs back woman's 'natural' place was back in the home looking after the kids.
Funny that.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Chad Carter wrote:
| I love women. I love their emotion. I love their illogic. | | |
If it is Dave, he's apprently made a lot of progress since his last rant.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14864
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
but the fact is that most people are only too willing to justify
otherwise unacceptable behaviour on the grounds of supposed biological
determinism far more than for any other reason
---
In my experience, people more often blame their upbringing for their behavior. And on one level, I do agree. A lot of people are screwed up because of their parents. But as I said above, that does not excuse you of your actions.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jo Harvatt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 July 2006
Posts: 1523
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
People often do use deficiencies in their upbringing to excuse/justify their own bad behaviour but I have noticed that they are often reluctant to extend that leniency to others.
Biological determinism is more dangerous inasmuch as it provides a get-out clause for an entire gender.
Thank you for the dialogue btw Michael, it is nice to have a conversation with someone who does not automatically cast me as a troll because my opinions are at variance with others.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mary Ives
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 206
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
<Women love this view of men until it comes time to find one to marry.
Then they want dependable, upright, men of action who will give them
multiple orgasms and healthy children and safe homes. Mr. Fantastic
from 1964 in other words.I like to believe at least boys had something to
look up to, rather than deride.>
I beg your pardon?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Malcolm Savoy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 November 2006
Posts: 92
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Point taken on Wooster, but his friends were not similarly affected. They were all about women and chased after them constantly. Bertie just seemed to get in so much womanly trouble because he was hanging out with the wrong sorts, but thankfully he Jeeves to protect his celibacy.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Malcolm Savoy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 November 2006
Posts: 92
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Anti - intellectualism is a kind of inverted snobbery. People are
derided for wanting to take interest in academic pursuits and/or the
life of the mind. Where I grew up many working class folks would be
derisive of attempts to get into higher education as either a waste of
time or getting above yourself. Its a kind of wilful ignorance and that
is why it is so bad.
I've always interpreted it as more of a problem with educated idiots. Give me the guy who never finished grade school with life experience and an abundance of common sense over the guy with a PhD who doesn't seem to have a clue how the world really works.
I think the working class has a fixation on working solutions. Doesn't matter how much book learning you got, what matters is whether or not you can do the job. And watching some educated boob without the sense god gave a turnip tell you what you're doing wrong is an insult beyond all measure.
Yeah, I've seen the sorts that have a problem with anyone being better or more knowledgeable than they are, but more often I've seen working class people respect those people, but only if they respect how that person uses that knowledge. For the parents out there, you know you respect the opinions of someone who has successfully raised a bunch of kids over that of an PhD educated person tossing a bunch of worthless theories at you about self-esteem and control-issues and whatever psychological buzz words they're inclined to use. I've seen many a parent laugh hysterically at the stupidity that such people put forth, because they don't see any practical application of these theories.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
"Anti-intellectualism", or a distaste for learning mostly through reading, isn't limited to some people from the working class. Our own dear blue-blood President is a well-known example of that.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Jacob P Secrest
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4068
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Joe, well said.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Brendan Howard
Byrne Robotics Member
FAQ Master Supreme
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4943
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
I have never met a PhD who doesn't know how the world works. And I
know a lot of people with PhD's. "Worthless theories?" Sheesh, there's
anti-intellectualism in action. Watch Supernanny or something and
tell me how impractical these theories are.
I grew up in Nebraska (as did Larry The Cable Guy) and now live in
Boston, MA. The popular attitudes about being intellectual couldn't be
different. I once said "The unreflected life is not worth living" in a roomful
of Nebraskans, who promptly burst into hysterical laughter: "So every
time I take a crap, I should reflect on it?" Sure, that's what I meant.
When you get an advanced degree in Nebraska, the most common
question you hear is "Now what are you going to DO with that?" Education
is never its own reward, unless you are being educated on fixing air
conditioners.
Ignorance is fashionable in 21st Century America, and a lot of people like
it that way.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Marcel Chenier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2723
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Jo and Michael,
Your debate is some good reading.
You exchange your perspectives while refraining from exchanging
insults. Bravo!
(Lots of other folks do that too, btw, but I think these two deserve an
honourable mention).
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jo Harvatt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 July 2006
Posts: 1523
|
| Posted: 09 December 2006 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Maybe I'm jaundiced Malcolm.
It just annoys me when I see people make a virtue out of ignorance.
Edited by Jo Harvatt on 09 December 2006 at 5:18pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
