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Topic: OT: America and Anti-Intellectualism (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 1  

Chad wrote: "I love being taken to task by a Canadian. Marcel, ever hear
of Oprah?"

Ah, because I am a Canadian I don't know what I am talking about?
OK, Chad. But if you have a problem with my comments, try criticizing
the position I am taking, try demonstrating that I am wrong, but don't try
to make your point by an ad hominen, m'kay? It's not really an accepted
form of argument.

Take the following for example:
You say: "I don't want to return to a time when women had to endure
being groped by a stranger"
I say: women are still groped by strangers (and not necessarily even by
men!) all the time (it is usually men, however).

But according to your logic because I am a Canadian , I can't say
whether you are right or wrong in any case. How could I, since I myself
am not an American and you are an American talking about America.
Again, according to your logic, I must simply take your word for it.

But, whether one is a Canadian, a Brit, a Scot, an African, or a Mexican--
or from anyplace else--their argument is not invalid simply because of
where they are from. And you are not right simply because you are an
American, howsoever much you might like to entertain this notion as
being the case.
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Chris Hutton
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 2  

Chuck, don't tell my wife, but she's dating me now!
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 3  

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Frank Brannan
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 4  

That's a nasty looking tumor Abe has.
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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 5  

I'm waiting for the Chad Carter "....and we had onions on our belts, because that was the style at the time...." post.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 6  

What bothers me is when I see a college graduate interviewed by Jay Leno, and when asked how many moons the Earth has, she hesitates and eventually says four. Now I know that this was just one lone soul among millions...but come on. That's the sort of response that would be surprising coming from an 18th Century Eastern-European peasant who spent most of his time telling fortunes and hunting werewolves. The fact that someone can go four years to a major collegiate institution and give a response like that goes beyond the bounds of the absurd. Maybe she wasn't an astronomy major? One would hope.

Well The Earth has only one known moon and defintiely only one large round natural satellite.

BUT...there are at least four known additional objects (the most famous one is 5KM in diameter and named Cruithne) that share Earth's orbit around the sun and do interact with the Earth gravitationally in a pattern called resonance.

While they are not moons or true earth satellites there are enough frustrated astronomy teachers and science writers out there who want to impress their students/readers  or at least get their attention that the truth gets "fudged"  leaving the mistaken impression that Earth REALLY has four or five moons instead of just one. I recently took a Solar System Astronomy course and very few of the students had any interest in the subject or paid much attention. I could easily see them mentally transforming near Earth asteroids in resonance with Earth into additional moons and  two years later recalling that in front of Leno's camera.

Hell, I thought Cruithne was a moon the first time I hard about it.



Edited by Emery Calame on 08 December 2006 at 2:04pm
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Jo Harvatt
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 7  

 Chad wrote:
The feminized culture has resulted in the backlash against men.

Firstly I'd take issue on that presumption of a feminised culture. What I think has happened is that men are now having to share territory with women that had hitherto been exclusively male. I agree there has been a superficial movement toward a more touchy feely culture but I see that more as a balancing factor.

I do not dispute however that men feel under threat from a supposed female culture but I would argue that the backlash is that of men against women rather than vice versa.


 QUOTE:
Father figures in America today are generally supposed to be flabby, football-loving morons who are inadequate in bed and forget to put the seat down. Women love this view of men until it comes time to find one to marry. Then they want dependable, upright, men of action who will give them multiple orgasms and healthy children and safe homes. Mr. Fantastic from 1964 in other words.

Yes, this is the image portrayed in adverts and sitcoms but that is nothing to do with real life or anyones expectations.


 QUOTE:
. Whether the 1950s man was a caricature and a lie any more than the current pussy-whipped hairless ape, it's hard to say. I like to believe at least boys had something to look up to, rather than deride.

Ah well thats the problem isn't it - 1950's man was a myth - women as well as men were sold the dream of the strong reliable man of integrity but how many men lived up to that ideal? I'm sure there were as many drunks wife beaters and cheaters as there are today, and of course as many men who were strong, decent and loving


 QUOTE:
 Recently I got into a discussion about Hemingway with some literate older fellows during Thanksgiving. The women all looked like we were talking about rebuilding a transmission, just completely dismissive. The discussion wasn't about whether Hemingway was a great man, it was about a writer who was tortured to his grave by insecurity, but still a great writer. It's tiring to have to justify Hemingway in this day and age, or Connery's Bond, or lurid Nick Carter novels, or Blaxploitation films or films from the 40s and 50s, because women dislike the misogyny they sense in them.

You can't blame women for that any more than I blame you for disliking sitcoms etc that are misanthropic. Novels have to be read in the context of the age that produced them of course but at the end of the day some attitudes just stink. .

I am in sympathy with you here though I think men today have a very difficult task - to leave behind old comfortable stereotypes and redefine masculinity in a way that makes sense to them.

 

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Rey Madrinan
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 8  

Durn wimmens an' thar equality!

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Jo Harvatt
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 9  

Reverting to the original post the US does not have the monopoly on anti-intellectualism - it has long been a feature of traditional white working class culture.

Which is obviously very convenient politically speaking, I mean we don't want the masses being able to think for themselves do we?

I notice too that despite his wealthy and privileged background because Bush gives the appearance of being not only ignorant but also stupid he is regarded as being a 'regular guy'.

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Jo Harvatt
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 10  

Never mind the number of moons in the sky - there are a large number of Americans who think WMD's were found in Iraq.

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Bill Collins
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 11  

The love of beer,boobs and football plus an aversion to reading could describe the majority of British males too,i must point out that i hate football and would rather drink vodka than beer!
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Chuck Dixon
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 12  

"Reverting to the original post the US does not have the monopoly on anti-intellectualism - it has long been a feature of traditional white working class culture."

Precisely how conversant are you with this culture? Did you study them, perhaps from the bushes while they performed their daily rituals? I want to know because I wasn't aware that one culture had cornered the market on ignorance.

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