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Topic: OT: America and Anti-Intellectualism (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 11:09pm | IP Logged | 1  

I remember when N*SYNC was on the radio all the time. Justin and Britney were such a cute couple. Good times, good times. 
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Chris Hutton
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 12:06am | IP Logged | 2  

The general portrait of the American male, for instance, is that he doesn’t like to read, is obsessed with football and boobs, adores beer, and is generally an uncultured, myopic, imbecile.

*************

I teach at a college. I love to read. I'm also obsessed with football (baseball moreso), enjoy a nice rack, and adore beer. Not Bud & Miller Lite, but real goddamn beer. But I also enjoy classical music (even opera!), wine, and enjoy cooking.


And I wouldn't be opposed to having Larry the Cable Guy put away for life for his insipid "Git 'R Done" line, that so many in my blue collar town enjoy plastering all over their pickup trucks!
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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 12:18am | IP Logged | 3  

Chad wrote: "The feminized culture has resulted in the backlash
against men."
____________________________________________________________
The notion that the US is a 'feminized culture' is just completely
absurd.   The US is a country founded on partiarchy and that this
tradition, while having been analyzed and scrutinized to death by
both women and men, has been subject to very little change.

This is not a feminist critique, by the way, it's just kinda obvious.
____________________________________________________________
Chad wrote: "Father figures in America today are generally
supposed to be flabby, football-loving morons who are inadequate
in bed and forget to put the seat down. Women love this view of men
until it comes time to find one to marry."

This is incredible. Forget to leave the seat down? US women love
this? Somehow, I don't think so . . .
___________________________________________________________

Chad wrote: "The publishing industry, once a place where men
found ample fiction suited to their tastes, has little or no interest in
male-oriented fare."

I think many people on this very board will disagree with this. But I
read it as you blaming your perception of bad current publishing
trends on . . . women? This is ridiculous.
_______________________________________________________

Chad :" . . . or Blaxploitation films or films from the 40s and 50s,
because women dislike the misogyny they sense in them"

Disliking misogyny is now a bad thing? When did this happen?
________________________________________________________

Chad: "A psychological de-nutting that doesn't allow for men to be
what they are, rather than what women believe we are."

Chad, I am sorry that you feel 'de-nutted.' Apparently, it's not any
fun.
However, I don't think that your broad accusations against women,
in that they are responsible for everything you suggest--particularly
how American men are perceived in the media, or how they perceive
themslves--is not the least bit justified. And that's putting it mildly.

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Chris Hutton
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 4  

the letter by David Cross was hilarious! And he found a way to slam the pathetically unfunny Dane Cook as well!
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Dan Bowen
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 2:36am | IP Logged | 5  

Matt Reed said: "Ask just about anyone from England about their obsession with tennis"

And therein lies the generalisation.  99% of English people couldn't give half a shit about tennis.  It is a spectacle observed for the 2 weeks of Wimbledon, usually by people who are there for social reasons.

Europe has an older tradition of intellectualism, simply by dint of it being 'older' in terms of its educational establishments.  I don't think there is any real doubt that the US is now the residence of the top level intellectual vanguard, as evinced by academic research.  It is just, as John Webb observed, a huge country with lots of people in it, so there are plenty of divvies there as well.

This bipolarity can be observed with reference to many individual people, too.  An individual can love Gogol, Swift, Shakespeare and Dostoevsky, yet still scream abuse as Celestine Babayaro misses another clearance and Newcastle United go a goal down.  We can discuss the ramifications of the Litvinenko assassination and then laugh as someone falls off a ladder on 'You've Been Framed'. 

The generalisations begin to emerge when a large number of people swim only in one particular pool.



Edited by Dan Bowen on 08 December 2006 at 2:37am
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Didier Yvon Paul Fayolle
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 6  

Joe Zhang wrote : " No offense intended to our European friends, but to the continent that gave us Imperialism, Colonialism, African slavery, World Wars One and Two, Communism, and the Spice Girls, I really don't care how much more intellectual Europe is supposed to be. "

----------------------------------------
Joe, this is stereotypes ! And old ! There is crap everywhere in the world !

... and Spice Girls are from England ! ( this last sentence was made to light up the whole thread, as it is going meaner by the post ! )

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 7  

"Intellectualism" can be used to serve and justify anything. I'm sure the Imperialists had their intellectuals coming up with detailed reasons why what they were doing was indisputably good. The Nazis certainly did too. Just because a society is more "intellectual" doesn't mean they will fail to practice basic morality with regards to themselves or to others. Which is why I personally don't think more intellectual discussion will necessarily lead to a better society.


Edited by Joe Zhang on 08 December 2006 at 7:23am
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Robert White
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 8  

I think some of you guys take the notion of "pompous intellectualism" too far. Society would grow tiresome if everyone walked around in turtle-necks and tweed jackets. I hope that nobody thinks differently. As the artistry of Three Stooges taught us; stupid people can learn to hone and refine their skills into an art form with enough time and patience.

What bothers me is when I see a college graduate interviewed by Jay Leno, and when asked how many moons the Earth has, she hesitates and eventually says four. Now I know that this was just one lone soul among millions...but come on. That's the sort of response that would be surprising coming from an 18th Century Eastern-European peasant who spent most of his time telling fortunes and hunting werewolves. The fact that someone can go four years to a major collegiate institution and give a response like that goes beyond the bounds of the absurd. Maybe she wasn't an astronomy major? One would hope.



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Chad Carter
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 11:04am | IP Logged | 9  

 

I love being taken to task by a Canadian. Marcel, ever hear of Oprah? She's the Queen of pop culture in America who evolved into a bastion of cultural taste. When I speak of this country, yes it was established by men. But the culture in the last twenty years EDIT has taken a decided turn toward feminized redefinition. That wasn't all bad at all in certain cases. I don't want to return to a time when women had to endure being groped by a stranger. I'm speaking to the cultural impact of a feminized society. The male-oriented fiction and film of the past had a quality that is missing from the compromised structure of a society where emotion has replaced fact, where emotional context is all. This is the result of many people being all too willing to "feel" instead of "think". All human beings balance these forces, but somewhere there has to be an adherance to logic, to understanding what must be done (whatever IT is) instead of decrying the doing. Men in this day and age are ashamed to be men, and that shame creates clownish caricatures that define them in this particular culture.

I'm not walking around beating my chest about what it means to be a man. I'm not man enough to do that. But I understand that what I dig about the culture of the past was that men had a concept of what was required to be a man in the world. You stuck to your word, you didn't hit women, you took care of your family, you worked for your dollar, and you respected the law. That didn't mean you were a prognathous-jawed monkey.



Edited by Chad Carter on 08 December 2006 at 11:05am
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Chuck Dixon
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 10  

What I see here is a media-inspired tempest in a thimble.

The media presents and reinforces ALL of our stereotypes of one another. What I see on TV and in magazines (on the rare occasions I'm exposed to either) differs hugely from what I experience in my daily life and my experiences with actual real people.

I have yet to run into anyone who cares if the couples featured on the covers of People, US, Them, We etc...stay together, adopt a child or have themselves dissected and placed in jars.

Run the numbers.

The #1 television show in the country is viewed by less than 10% of the population. Sometimes FAR less. The network evening news is viewed by even less. The #1 magazine is read by even fewer than that. When we get to the world of pop music and movies the penetration becomes even less. How can a media consumed by so few pretend to reflect America? Obviously their shrinking footprint on our culture is shrinking because regular folks no longer relate to it.

That said, I would never judge any culture by how its media presents it. I would no more judge a Brit by his tabloid papers than I would a German for his horror movies.

With the web and satellite TV and niche publishing there is no longer anything resembling a unifying pop culture. Gone are the days when nearly every home subscribed to the Saturday Evening Post or tuned in en masse to a single popular television program or immersed themselves in the latest bestseller.

Each week we are force fed the latest big movie or hot comic or hit music act. If George Clooney has a movie coming out he is, for that month, "a genius", "the sexiest man alive", "sportsman of the year" and "an actor for his generation" on magazine covers everywhere. At least until he is nudged from this premier place in our national psyche by the next month's superstar.

These phenomenon surface and are consumed by a few and then tossed aside. Pop culture moves at a more dizzying pace than ever before and becomes ever more forgettable. Quality and universal appeal have been abandoned for the big opening weekend, synergy and market position. We're all expected to be in the entertainment business now.

But all of this whirls around a shrinking and fragmenting minority of consumers while the vast majority of Americans trundle on with actual lives only dimly aware (if at all) of who Jennifer Aniston is dating.

 

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 11  

Can't believe Vince cheated on her.
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 12  

Chris Hutton: And I wouldn't be opposed to having Larry the Cable Guy put away for life for his insipid "Git 'R Done" line, that so many in my blue collar town enjoy plastering all over their pickup trucks!

Oh, I know what you mean!  The linemen on the local high school varsity football team all have sleeveless muscle shirts that say that on the back.  I cringe every time I see one.

I liked it better several years back when the shirts said "We bust our's to kick your's!"

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