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Topic: OT: America and Anti-Intellectualism (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Patrick Drury
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 1  

Your point would have probably been better underscored with a quote from something other than a movie
=================

Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny too.
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Steve Ogden
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 2  

<<Your point would have probably been better underscored with a quote from something other than a movie.>>

 

Yes, it is from a movie, but it still rings true.  Being from a movie does not change that fact that is true.

Steve Ogden

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Kurt Evans
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 3  

You think yer better than me?  I don't like yer smert mouth, pretty boy.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 4  

Sir, your unruly ragamuffinry shall not long endure the corrective attention of my coachman.
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Rey Madrinan
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 5  

I think either side looking down at the other is kind of goofy. That being said, I don't like the current, "I'm a ignorant racist/bigot, but those P.C-Jerks are the real bad guys" attitude thats been floating around.

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 6  

 

The feminized culture has resulted in the backlash against men. Where once a guy like Reed Richards was looked upon as someone to be admired, a brilliant man of action beyond reproach, he is now categorized as either a cold, calculating machine or a completely clueless dork.

Father figures in America today are generally supposed to be flabby, football-loving morons who are inadequate in bed and forget to put the seat down. Women love this view of men until it comes time to find one to marry. Then they want dependable, upright, men of action who will give them multiple orgasms and healthy children and safe homes. Mr. Fantastic from 1964 in other words. The father on the box for a train set from the 1950s was a handsome middle-aged guy building a train set "with your son". He's having a blast. The kid's having a blast. That's how men viewed themselves and their world back then. Now those men are irascible slope-brows on sitcoms. Whether the 1950s man was a caricature and a lie any more than the current pussy-whipped hairless ape, it's hard to say. I like to believe at least boys had something to look up to, rather than deride.

So even if these men these women eventually seek are Mr. Fantastic, they are still stereotyped now as buffoons, even if they are not. In a feminized culture, men do not have the need or the means to protect or safeguard what is important to them. They are assured that there is someone in authority to take care of them and theirs. Rather than be able to survive on their own, or die on their own if need be, they are never given the scenario to prove themselves, or find out what their limits are. FIGHT CLUB was in part a reaction to this sort of thing.

The publishing industry, once a place where men found ample fiction suited to their tastes, has little or no interest in male-oriented fare. Men are not the ones reading. Women and teenage girls are reading, or so we're told. There's a Richard Stark or Joe Haldeman or Joe Lansdale working still, but they don't write fiction that women want to read at all. And it's a shame. Recently I got into a discussion about Hemingway with some literate older fellows during Thanksgiving. The women all looked like we were talking about rebuilding a transmission, just completely dismissive. The discussion wasn't about whether Hemingway was a great man, it was about a writer who was tortured to his grave by insecurity, but still a great writer. It's tiring to have to justify Hemingway in this day and age, or Connery's Bond, or lurid Nick Carter novels, or Blaxploitation films or films from the 40s and 50s, because women dislike the misogyny they sense in them.

In the feminized society, every one of these things is taken out of context, as are men themselves, and redefined as stupid, offensive, or generally beneath notice. In the current view, to be "feminine" is to be intelligent. To be "male", is to be perverse.

I want women to have every single opportunity and right men have (except frontline combat...it's pointless whether they can do it, it's a morale killer for anyone to watch anyone die, but watching a woman die has to be worse), to make every cent a man makes for the same amount of time and effort. But the willingness of men to allow themselves to believe they are simpering time-wasters and nothing more is a kind of poison, I believe. A psychological de-nutting that doesn't allow for men to be what they are, rather than what women believe we are. And I love to be loved by women, but they should have as open a mind about those films and books of male-oriented fare espoused by creators like Sam Peckinpah and John D. MacDonald. There's a place for it, and it is needed I believe. Desperately.



Edited by Chad Carter on 07 December 2006 at 6:08pm
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Jay Matthews
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 7  

I think America is a self-actualized culture, meaning we are ahead of the rest of the world in bringing a measure of meaningful affluence (measured in actual standard of living) to the common man.

Almost every thinker in the world espouses views that support the common man, the "masses" if you will, having enough income to do something besides survive:  to have some sway over their destiny and health, and make some decisions about the pursuits that make them happy.

But not many seem to write about what such a country would look like.  I submit it's America.  The pop culture you see is the result of more "regular guys" having true buying power than anywhere else.  You think it's the cultural view that men don't read?  Most men don't read books for leisure and never will.  But they still have a libido (in the broadest sense) a desire to explore and do stuff.  So they buy electronics and watch sports, etc.  Why do KFC's pop up all over the place?  Because that's where Average Joe wants to spend his paycheck.

The masses are anti-intellectual and always will be.  Give them power, money, and a functioning economy and it will look something like America.
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Robert White
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 8  


 QUOTE:
The general portrait of the American male, for instance, is that he doesn’t like to read, is obsessed with football and boobs, adores beer, and is generally an uncultured, myopic, imbecile. Now the truly disturbing thing is that many American males fail to see all these things as negative traits, thus leading to the often hilarious war of words when American’s and European’s interact on the internet.


I should have commented that I don't think any of these things are in and of themselves negatives. I like football and boobs, for instance. Not a beer fan though. I think this stuff starts to become problem when it's portrayed as the focule point of the universe.

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 9  

No offense intended to our European friends, but to the continent that gave us Imperialism, Colonialism, African slavery, World Wars One and Two, Communism, and the Spice Girls, I really don't care how much more intellectual Europe is supposed to be.


Edited by Joe Zhang on 07 December 2006 at 8:52pm
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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 10  

Anyone who thinks Americans are especially belligerent or stupid is ignorant of history.  We're like any other country that enjoys the dominant position in the world.  It's just that unlike past dominant powers — Romans, British, etc. — we have a better ability to document it.
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | 11  

.Chad Carter wrote: I want women to have every single opportunity
and right men have (except frontline combat...it's pointless whether they can
do it, it's a morale killer for anyone to watch anyone die, but watching a
woman die has to be worse), to make every cent a man makes for the same
amount of time and effort.


Chad,
I agree with a lot of what you said(love Hemingway) but please explain why
you feel the above excerpt is true.
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Jacob P Secrest
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | 12  

 Joe Zhang wrote:

No offense intended to our European friends, but to the continent that
gave us Imperialism, Colonialism, African slavery, World Wars One and
Two, Communism, and the Spice Girls, I really don't care how much more
intellectual Europe is supposed to be.

America had its fair share of Imperialism, more than its fair share of
slavery (long after the Europeans left), plus Jim Crow laws, the Vietnam
War, the Iraq War, Britney Spears and N*SYNC (both of which are ten times
worse than the Spice Girls).

And Communism (while not altogether the best idea, and one the was
corrupted to tyranny) was founded on intellectualism.

Let's not forget that Europe gave us Sigmund Freud, Capitalism, and René
Descartes.

Also, the Spice Girls were awesome.

Edited by Jacob P Secrest on 07 December 2006 at 9:23pm
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