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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133279
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 1
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A general response to Jaokim:First off, this board is dedicated to an American creator of superhero comics. When the term "comicbooks" is used here it usually means American superhero comics, unless specified otherwise. Please do not turn into one of these utterly boring posters who must cry out in defense of his/her particular group if it is not "properly" represented. As to superhero comics being the "basic form" -- is MAUS a superhero comic? Is SIN CITY? If so I must have read them wrong. The rest of your points have already been addressed many, many times in this thread.
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Deepak Ramani
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 85
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 2
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JB wrote:
| When "fans" refer to Superman and Batman as "Supes" and "Bats" it doesn't do much to elevate the form, does it? Civilian critics will still point to those comics that go against the basic form -- WATCHMEN, MAUS, SIN CITY -- as how comics should be, while everything else is crap. One can debate forever whether those examples represent a new high in comicbooks. But one can also note that fans of the series don't talk about Manny, or Nightie, or Silkie, or Marvie. |
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I have heard fans refer to Ozymandias from WATCHMEN as "Ozzy", for what it's worth. I've never heard anybody suggest that such a reference diminished the standing of WATCHMEN in the public eye.
Re: Bats and Supes -- I'm guessing that Plastic Man (or Lobo) acting in character would be liable to call Batman "Bats" and Superman "Supes".
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 3
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"Maybe, but isn't a fact that most of us started reading comics as
children and do have quite a few nostalgic connections with many of
these characters having grown up with a lot of them by our side in
precisely the type of relationship you say your own kids have. Like old
childhood friends, which is also, I think, why some people react so
strongly about it all – whether pro or con nicknames – when it comes to
how the characters are treated in various ways."
I mean as adult comic fans there are some things we had to have grown out of. (BTW I have no kids.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133279
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 4
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Maybe, but isn't a fact that most of us started reading comics as children and do have quite a few nostalgic connections with many of these characters having grown up with a lot of them by our side in precisely the type of relationship you say your own kids have. Like old childhood friends, which is also, I think, why some people react so strongly about it all – whether pro or con nicknames – when it comes to how the characters are treated in various ways.*** You're agreeing, then, with those who insist comics are only for kids and should be treated as such?
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Stanton L. Kushner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Posts: 382
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 5
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I remember when reading comprehension was a
required skill.
sigh
* * *
I'll take that to mean that no one is actually using the nickname {ugh} "Thorie", then?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Why is "Thorie" an "ugh" but "Wolvie" and "Maggie" aren't?
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Stanton L. Kushner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Posts: 382
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 7
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Why is "Thorie" an "ugh" but "Wolvie" and "Maggie" aren't?
* * *
"Maggie" definitely IS an "ugh". "Wolvie".. I dunno... I think it sounds dumb, but not as bad as the other two.
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Roberto Melendrez
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 377
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 8
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JB wrote: ' Reading comics is still Hollywood shorthand for "this
guy is a bit slow".'
Absolutely! This has been for a long, long time- but I've also
notice that there has been an addition/alteration to the
shorthand since the advent of the internet:
An adult (usually male) reads comics is also shorthand for a
someone who is emotionally/socially/sexually stunted/retarded
but not always slow-brained.
These guys usually overwieght (sometimes very under wieght)
with very limited life experience (ie. lives with parents; never
had a girlfriend). Usually overly concerned with the slightest
trivia or change in a fictional character to the point of being at
odds with reality itself. Sometimes they're not portrayed as
dumb but rather as someone to go to when you need a quick
answer (of course, they give an overly detailed answer and the
civilians cut them off, roll thier eyes, etc.). Sometimes they are
well educated (masters degree in mythology or some other
"non-marketable" degree) and work menial jobs far beneath
their educational status.
In Hollywood, an adult who reads comics presents behaviors
and attitudes that the general public views as immature and
laughable at best (pathological and retarded at worst!).
Sad part is too many guys live up to the steotype. Has anyone
seen Triumph, the insult comic dog, visiting the Star Wars fans?
Has to be seen to be believed.
I didn't see all of "the 40 Year Old Virgin," but what I did see
reminded me of a lot of guys I've met in the comics scene.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17698
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 9
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Burton "Gus" Guster (the character Dule Hill plays on the show PSYCH) is a comic book fan. Shawn Spencer (James Roday's character) tries to tag him as a geek in one episode because of it; however, because Gus is the respectable, reasonable half of the partnership, I don't think the label sticks.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133279
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 10
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"The Simpsons" revealed the Comic Shop Guy to be a member of MENSA. Did that become his defining characteristic?Alas, as far back as "The Patty Duke Show", I have spent my life being pummeled by civilian representations of comicbook readers -- not even "fans" -- as mentally deficient. A few exceptions do not, alas, change the broader perceptions.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
Posts: 17698
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 11
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Oh, I'm in total agreement regarding how "Hollywood" uses comic books as shorthand for "this guy is a bit slow" and/or "this guy is socially inept." I mentioned the PSYCH example because it's nice to see that in at least one instance someone decided not to play it that way.
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Jason Powell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 429
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| Posted: 12 October 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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"Gally??? If you've actually heard or seen someone
use such a thing, I'd love to hear the story. C'mon!"
source:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.ph
p/t-341379-is-galactus-the-migthiest-force-in-the-ma
rvel-universe.html
"Gally is not evil...he serves a purpose....planet most
be eaten and Gally the one that does it."
source:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.ph
p/t-339021-parallax-vs-galactus-full-powered.html
"parallax cosmic isnt as powerful. parallax as
posessing hal (with oan power) is more powerful
than gally"
source:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/Champions/0
00387-2.html
"The Dragonball Z fighters vs. Galactus. Yeah, old
Gally would have a Super Saiyan Snack in this fight,
but that's what I want to see."
source: forums.comicbookresources.com/
archive/index.php/t-54190.html
"But...I'd rather Galactus visit this earth BEFORE the
end of teh series...him fighting uber rei would
probably result in Galctus turinging into a
puddle...think about it...
At the end Uber rei was trying to end all this suffering
right? Galactussuffers from his Great Hinger , right?
so Gally may actually *want* to
be..ummm..puddlefied
if u guys wanna comment at that , shoot"
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Topic Closed)
