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Matt Linton
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Joined: 13 December 2005
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 1  

Are we discussing two different issues?  Some questions, in the hope of clarifying:

  • Is it ever okay to refer to a character by ANY nickname?
  • Is it okay to refer to a character by a pre-existing nickname (Spidey, Shellhead, Bones, Scotty, Chewie)?
  • Does the motivation behind the use of the nicknames matter?
One thing I think is getting confused (and correct me if I'm wrong), but JB seems to be saying that if you look at the characters with the sense of awe and wonder you did as a child, you wouldn't call Superman "Supey", etc.  And that to look at the characters without that sense of awe and wonder is disrespectful of who the character is supposed to be.  What's confusing the issue is the idea of ascribing a negative motivation to the use of nicknames, rather than specifying that there may be a negative effect from the use of those nicknames.
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Brett Rankin
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 2  

Spider-Man movies - held in high regard not just as excellent films, but also did fantastic box-office. Whatever your problems with it (and I agree with several of them) you must admit that it was played straight and without mockery. Now, maybe everyone who saw it really thought it was "silly" and were seeing just so they could laugh at it all, but I'm fairly certain the billion+ in receipts and the great reviews say otherwise.

Contrast that with almost every tongue-in-cheek version of a superhero film tanking, and I think you have a general public with a lot of respect for the genre. You can drag out the old 60s Batman reference all you like, but that was 40 years ago, and a BAM! ZAP! here and there in an article doesn't mean anyone's laughing - it means it makes for flashy copy.

People like superheroes, just like they like sports, horror movies, cop shows, and a bunch of other stuff, all of which people are allowed to take their occasional pot-shot at. Live with it! :)

And if I'm reading the minds of the entirety of fandom, so are you, yes?
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Joe Mayer
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 3  

Ok, if people are that embarassed by the use of nicknames, why don't they just stop.  Ignore those of us who aren't embarassed by ourselves or our love of the genre.  If you are worried that people will think less of you for reading/working/doing anything with comics, stop.  Leave while you can. 

They are forms of entertainment.  When it is no longer entertaining or fun for you, it is time to go somewhere else.  If you are going to worry so much about how I refer to Chewie or Spidey or Stretch or Ronny (Regan) or MJ (thats Jordon), then you have WAAAY too much time on your hands. 

Remember, I am not teling you how to refer to these characters.  So don't tell me.

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Andrew Old
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | 4  

 John Byrne wrote:

Interesting. Yet, apparently, you feel confident enough to "read the minds" of everybody else who reads comics, so you know that their use of these "nicknames" is all for the "fun" of the hobby, and don't add at all to the general disdain for superheroes held by, well, pretty much everybody who isn't a fan.

Forest, meet trees.

He said "maybe". You're the one reading minds, with your stance that it's always "disrespectful" whatever that means to lines on a page.

Different strokes for different folks. You don't care for nicknames, others do. That's really all it amounts to, and in the scheme of things it matters even less.

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Jonathon Thezler
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 5  

Who the hell cares what they're called???
If it's enough so that I know who you're referring to, that's fine.

Respect is not an issue. These are not deities. They're 2 dimensional drawings on paper. They're not real, and some people's views on here are suggesting otherwise. Those people seriously need to get a life. You just stereotype the Comic Book Guy character too well.

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Bob Tucker
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 6  

Perhaps you'd care to enlighten me how Chewie, Bones, and Scotty made Star Wars and Star Trek less respectable?

Comics were thought poorly of long before nicknames came into play, and Marvel, nicknames and all, were being praised by mainstream sources in the 60s.

So, I really don't see your point, Mr. Byrne.  It doesn't seem to be supported by any historical account, and you seem to be bending over backwards to attempt to make your point... and rather badly, I might add.  The reason so many of us are arguing with you is because we love these characters and we use these nicknames out of love, not disrespect.  Your point doesn't even hold water here, much less out there in civilian land.
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Matt Timson
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 2:23am | IP Logged | 7  

Some people get all bent out of shape over the stupidest things. Lack of
respect? For comic book characters?

Riiiiight...
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Joakim Jahlmar
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 4:02am | IP Logged | 8  

JB wrote:
"Do you see a lot of STAR TREK fans helping those folk along by refering to the characters as 'Kirkie' or 'Spocky'? (I can hear Trek fans' heads exploding all over the world, just because I typed those names.)"

No I don't see that happening, but then again, most of the somewhat ok Marvel nicknames actually originate from the comics themselves, which I do think make a difference. For example, as I am currently reading Essential Hulk volume 1, if we take a look at the cover of Tales to Astonish # 69, it boasts the text "See ol' green skin 'trapped in the lair of the Leader!'". To me it seems that Stan Lee and early Marvel really rooted these familiarity levels between fans and characters quite purposefully, and perhaps that was part of their original success in the competition with DC.

As for the "Maggie" and "Blobbie" version of things, it equally makes me cringe, so I'm definitely not saying that any and all nicknames are of equal value.

And, there's a time and place for everything, I don't think I would resort to nicknames when trying to talk to the uninitiated who have a rather strange view of the medium per se. There I am with you all the way JB.

JB also wrote (in response to nicknames such as Bones, Chewie and Scotty):
"And Kirkie, and Spocky, and Picky, and Rykie, and Sisky, and Janey, and Chaky, and Archy and Polly."

So JB, would you actually argue that the ones you just cited (that as far as I know are not in common use) are equal to the ones that are rooted in the shows themselves and commonly cited?
It just seems counterproductive somehow to view any author/creator's succeful attempt at creating familiarity between readers/viewers and characters as resulting in disrespectfulness. Just a very 'umble opinion here.

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John Mietus
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 4:54am | IP Logged | 9  

Wow. The number of merit badgers, agenda warriors and self-styled martyrs
in this thread is absolutely staggering.

Sad.

People, it's JB's forum and his rule. No need to get into dick measuring
contests.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 10  

JB's forum and his rule

****

Not a "rule". I just don't like it.

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 5:16am | IP Logged | 11  

JB also wrote (in response to nicknames such as Bones, Chewie and Scotty):"And Kirkie, and Spocky, and Picky, and Rykie, and Sisky, and Janey, and Chaky, and Archy and Polly."

+++

So JB, would you actually argue that the ones you just cited (that as far as I know are not in common use) are equal to the ones that are rooted in the shows themselves and commonly cited?

****

Neither. Nor was that my point.

But you knew that.

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Jon Godson
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 12  

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