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Topic: An Alarm Clock and an Aspirin (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 1  

"I got the impression he's a pretty nice guy."

Well, you didn't see the puppy-stew I ate later that night. :)
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Patrick Drury
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 2  

BUT, having said THAT, I think it's a typical reaction for people in our situation - for as long as Byrne has been on the internet, there have been people with nothing better to do than cause some sort of trouble - I think Joe may be over-reacting, but then again, I can't blame him - it would be like if you got mugged a few times, you'd start getting jumpy when walking past dark alleys.

Plus, you lose any "high road" points when you called him a "drama queen".
============================================

Sorry Mike, but as long as the internet's been around there have been people with nothing better to do than start trouble.  There are trolls everywhere.  I don't think members of the JBF get a pass any more than anyone else does.  You surely don't have it so bad that Joe is justified in implying some guy might be a troll based on a pretty innocuous conversation.

And let's be honest, Joe might be a ray of sunshine in real life, but he tends to show his ass a lot around here.  His recent conversation with Brian Hibbs springs to mind. 

edited to remove a bunch of space at the end of the post.


Edited by Patrick Drury on 14 July 2006 at 6:55am
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:05am | IP Logged | 3  

Feel better now?

 

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Patrick Drury
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 4  

I'm a little hungry, why do you ask?
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 5  

"say around 1985 (still in college, struggling for cash, etc etc)"

Thing about teenage characters, they can make mistakes all the time yet still be the protagonist, because screwing up is just what teenagers do. Twentysomethings and thirtysomethings who screw things up aren't heroes, they're losers. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 14 July 2006 at 7:17am
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 6  

Because you're right in that Joe's being over-zealous, but I feel that his heart's in the right place.

Who doesn't make mistakes?  I've posted a lot of things I regret.  I don't know.

 

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 7  

oops!  Wrong thread...



Edited by Mike O'Brien on 14 July 2006 at 7:39am
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Gregg Allinson
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 8  

But we already do have multiple iterations of characters. Witness the Ultimate, All-Star and MAX lines. It would be relatively easy to age-label comics just as other forms of media are already labeled.

...which is just silly.  Replace, say, Spider-Man with, say, Snoopy or The Lone Ranger and you might begin to get some idea of how ludicrious the idea of having an "Ultimate version", "Marvel Knights version", "Marvel Adventures version", etc. is.  I am not against adult comics (and by adult, of course, I mean stuff like Daniel Clowes, Chris Ware, etc., not porn- although there's also room for out there for porn comics).  I'm not even against adult superhero comics, provided they feature characters that were created for an adult audience (eg The Authority).  But Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, et al were created to primarily appeal to a prepubescent audience.  Publishing "adult" versions of those characters is ludicrious. 

Also, Marvel and DC's idea of variety used to be publishing war comics, romance comics, science fiction comics, etc.  Now, it's publishing 5 different versions of the same character ad infinitum.  I don't think it's a coincidence that comic sales have shrunk along with the number of different genres published at The Big Two.

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Chuck Dixon
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 9  

If I may quote from something I wrote earlier:

Superman and Spider-man should never talk like "real" people. They aren't real people. They are fictional contrivances. In addition to that, most of the folks writing comics don't ever talk to "real" people and have no idea what they talk like. Uh...you know? "Real" dialogue in comics these days means that the writer has written as close to the patois of a Quentin Tarentino movie as his talents will allow. It means that he has watched enough episodes of Buffy to get the characters speech patterns down.

Also, Superman and Spider-man should never use foul language no matter how many warning stickers you place on their publications. They should never be shown urinating. Or having sexual relations. They should never be diagnosed with cancer or be treated for AIDs. They should never learn that they were molested as a child. They should never have many of the things happen to them that happen to real people every day.
I grew up reading comics and was attracted to them precisely because I will never fight Dr Octopus or fly to another planet to rescue a civilization from destruction. And while being thrilled and amazed by the adventures of the heroes I loved and admired, I also learned lessons about courage, loyalty and kindness. My heroes did not have feet of clay. They were icons. Towers of virtue. They had human flaws but were not flawed humans. They had runs of bad luck and misfortune but came out the other side of them a stronger, more determined hero.

Superheroes are escapist fiction for children. You may like them and read their adventures as an adult but recall that their primary audience is children. Those millions of kids playing with action figures (actually removing them from their blister cards and playing with them on the living room carpet and in the backyard dirt) and watching cartoons and snuggling under Ninja Turtles comforters.

And I am NOT putting superheroes down in any sense of the word. I still read comics. I WRITE the darned things and get a kick out of scripting masked guys and gals doing crazy, crazy stuff.

As much as anyone might want to hold on to their childhood fantasies by having their favorite superheroes grow up along with them, it is wrong to want it to be so. If Spider-man uses foul language then it becomes a part of him and can never be taken away or ret-conned out of existance. And there cannot be two Spider-mans; one for the sublitertates and one the rest of the world enjoys. There is not an adult version of Donald Duck just to keep his longtime fans happy. (Not that they wouldn't be outraged by the very idead.) These characters have very long lives. Longer than any of us will be alive. They must be maintained and carefully watched over.


It is possible to continue to have compelling adventures of your favorite characters that satisfy both the mass-appeal younger audience and the older devotee of the medium. But it requires skilled writing and long term planning and storylines far more sophisticated than the "stunt" storylines we see so often these days. 

Which is the more "mature" recent movie dealing in universal themes? Hostel? Or the latest Harry Potter?

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 10  

Boy, too bad you never want to work in comics again, Chuck...

And Gregg - if comic readership is down at 1.5 million fans, I don't want to know what up is...

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Patrick Drury
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 11  

Because you're right in that Joe's being over-zealous, but I feel that his heart's in the right place.

Who doesn't make mistakes?  I've posted a lot of things I regret.  I don't know.

=========================

You've probably also remarked when you thought someone was being an ass.  Which is what I did.  See?  It's the circle of life.  Acunamatada, blah, blah, blah.



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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 14 July 2006 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 12  

Amen, Mr. Dixon. Amen. 
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