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Chris Hutton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11667
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 1:19am | IP Logged | 1
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The Legion has zero appeal to me. I can't explain it. I love superheroes. I love sci-fi.
I just am not interested in the Legion.
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Gregg Allinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4252
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 2:59am | IP Logged | 2
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According to Comics Continuum, SuperBOY is now SuperMAN in the upcoming Legion cartoon. I would guess this is a result of the recent legal wranglings with the Siegel family and DC.
Well, that changes the character dynamics ever so slightly...
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 3
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It's my favorite comic right now. I love the designs for the cartoon as
well. Last time I liked it was when Giffen was on it. I don't really
mind they've gone all adult. As long as it's entertaining. I'm sure if
someone would relaunch them as teens or whatever, and have it be cool,
I'd read it too. But then again, it would probably be all perverted and
soft core porn like most tasteless teen comics published lately.
Problem is most comics aimed at kids never really follow the current
trends. Or well anyway, when I was young, maybe it's sad to say, but
the only comics I thought looked somewhat accurate where Archie. It's
superficial but clothes and haircuts is kind of important. While super
heroes aimed at teens always seemed out of date and really geeky.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 02 July 2006 at 10:40am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 4
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The Legion has zero appeal to me. I can't explain it. I love superheroes. I love sci-fi. I just am not interested in the Legion. *** You're writing rhetorically, but nevertheless let me take a swing at this. Back when he was writing THOR, Len Wein said a Very Wise Thing. It went something like this: "You can go off on cosmic quests as much as you like, but every so often you have to come back to Earth and take your lumps from the Absorbing Man." In other words, while the big, huge, cosmic stories can be fun, what ultimately connects a reader to these stories and characters is the more mundane, the more identifiable elements. If Planet Squahr in the FoosBane Nebula is threatened by the invading Borglesneems, this may make for a rousing, action packed adventure for Captain Fonebone, but for the reader the end reaction will probably boil down to something in the neighborhood of "who cares?" The Legion has the same problem. Science Fiction has its followers, and I count myself as one of them, but I would not want a steady diet of science fiction set only in the 30th Century. Every so often I need something I can connect to more directly. The Legion rarely provides this. Fine, for people who like that sort of thing. But not really a foundation on which a long-standing franchise could be built. (Would you be reading Superman's adventures today, if he'd stayed on Krypton and gotten the same powers? Truth, justice, and the Kryptonian Way?)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 5
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While super heroes aimed at teens always seemed out of date and really geeky.*** Superhero comics are not written or drawn by kids (and they would mostly be pretty awful if they were). They tend to be written and drawn by people -- mostly middle-aged men -- whose personal concerns are somewhat removed from an audience of "kids".
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Stéphane Garrelie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4226
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 6
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Not sure that's the reason for me JB, but like other people here: I like SF, I like Super Heroes, and I never was interested in the legion.
On the other hand I agree with you and Len Wein when it's Thor or Captain Marvel stories.
But I liked Bob Layton's Hercules who if i remember well wasn't conected to hearth anymore.
Without Hercules I'll agree with you that it's probably because we need more mundane and identifiables elements for Super-Heroes.
I confess that I didn't read much Legion stories, just somme Gerry Conway issues. And some months ago one by Mark Waid.
Maybe I should try Cockrum's.
The only time i found myself interested in the legion was when Chris Claremont guest starred Saturn Girl in an issue of Sovereign Seven.
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 7
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While I am still a fan of the Legion. I think JB hit it right on the
head with the issue of its lacking a connection. For
me, that connection was, and always will be, Superboy.
I knew that this was the kid who would eventually become our Man of
Steel; the example, the leader, the member of the JLA. He travelled
through time to join other adventures his own age,
because there was no one else like him in his own time. Somehow, it
made his childhood and teen years seem a little less lonely to me.
Let's face it, Superboy appeals to the geek mentality. In Smallville
he's a loner (by necessity), has a lab in his parents' basement where
he builds robots and such. Not really all that popular with girls in
his civilian ID. He's kind of a bookworm and not much into sports.
Being his planet's first superhero (all this is pre-Crisis, naturally),
the only people who can claim to be his mental or physical peers
areusually out to destroy him. How great for him that there's some
place he can go where the entire burden of his existence is eased
somewhat by a group of like-minded individuals his own age.
Removing Superboy from the Legion equation was a bad move, in my
opinion. There is no familiar face to hang the series on. The whole
premise of the series hangs on teenage Superman going to the future and
having adventures with these teens. Without him, You may as well devote
twelve issues to Bouncing Boy and the heroes of Lallor, for all the
good it's going to do attracting readers who are not familiar with the
book. At least before you could say that they were a group that
Superboy used to hang out with. Now, even that tenuous connection doesn't exist.
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Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 8
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The disconnect to Earth as we know it's the problem I have as well. I'm not a huge science fiction fan, but the SF that worked best for me, like in Bester and Ballard and Silverberg and so on, is the iconic use of recognizable situations and scenarios. Using private eyes in an SF story, no matter how far in the future, gives us a grounding to something familiar.
Maybe the Legion needs their own version of the Boom Tube, in order to at least reach a timeline in which some of the DCU might interact with them. Also, trim the roster. You can have periphery guys, but concentrate on four or five of them per arc or something. And make Brin Londo cool again, if he's even still alive. No more furball nonsense.
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Mark McConnell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 573
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 9
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1. Superboy
2. Invisible Kid
3. Colossal Boy
4. Cosmic Boy
5. Lightning Lad
6. Phantom Girl
7. Saturn Girl
8. Dream Girl
Edited by Mark McConnell on 02 July 2006 at 5:45pm
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4649
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 10
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John Mietus wrote:
| That cover is by Mike Grell, Robert -- unless you're talking about the #201
cover on the previous page. |
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The cover to Superboy #201 is by Nick Cardy, not Dave Cockrum, by the way. I have a soft spot for those old Cardy covers.
Chad Carter wrote:
| Are there reprints of the Grell issues somewhere? |
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As far as I know, the only place the Grell issues have been reprinted in the Legion Archives series. Legion Archives 10 features all the Dave Cockrum stuff, and Archives 11 and 12 feature all but one of Grell's issues. Good stuff, but the writers (especially Shooter) were kind of hamstrung by editor Murray Boltinoff, who would not allow continued stories and rarely even allowed full-length stories. Shooter did his best Legion work during his earlier tenure in the sixties, under editor Mort Weisinger.
Interesting trivia fact about Superboy #221, the Charma/Grimbor issue. Jim Shooter wrote that issue, and at the time he happened to be roommates with Dave Cockrum. And Dave almost wound up drawing the issue (I think scheduling problems precluded it). That would have been cool. Shooter and Cockrum are my favorite Legion writer and artist, respectively, but they never did a story together (Cockrum's run coming between Shooter's two tenures).
I'm in the minority, but I think the Paul Levitz run was the beginning of the end for the Legion. The stories were enjoyable, but he went too far with aging, marrying, and killing off of characters. By the time he left there was really nowhere left to go with the series.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 02 July 2006 at 6:54pm
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Ben Mcvay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006
Posts: 1414
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 11
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My faves:
Gates
Brainiac 5
Ayla Ranzz
Shrinking Violet
Dream Girl
Tinya Wazzo
Luorno Durgo
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 12
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I agree with Chris Hutton, for the reasons JB gives above. I've read mountains of sf in my life, from Asimov to Doctorow, but an ongoing sf series featuring superheroes just hasn't clicked with me. Unfortunate, because I've tried to read LSH several times over the years and never stayed with it.
As for the cartoon, I think the art style is pretty ugly and don't have much interest in seeing it.
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