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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12719
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 4:35am | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
| as long as there are many humans who find misinformation more charming than fact, error will flourish, no matter how readily available the facts are |
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Well, there it is. Answered your own question, JB. If you're going to insist on fact over misinformation, then clearly you are a menace!
Why, I bet a fact-monger like you even thinks a quote such as this from that "scandalous" film, INHERIT THE WIND, is something laudable:
QUOTE:
| Yes there is something holy to me! The power of the individual human mind. In a child's power to master the multiplication table there is more sanctity than in all your shouted "Amens!," "Holy, Holies!" and "Hosannahs!" An idea is a greater monument than a cathedral. And the advance of man's knowledge is more of a miracle than any sticks turned to snakes, or the parting of waters. Gentlemen, progress has never been a bargain. You've got to pay for it. Darwin moved us forward to a hilltop, where we could look back and see the way from which we came. But for this view, this insight, this knowledge, we must abandon our faith in the pleasant poetry of Genesis. |
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Chris Newton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 June 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 2
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I'm new to this board and to be honest I was drawn here after reading something about the Van Sciver sharpie comments. After reading a lot of posts and posting a few myself I have seen JB:
1) insult posters for stating their opinions (the work "dickweed" was used)
2) disparrage the work of other professionals by name
3) display little tolerance for differences of opinion, often telling others that they are wrong, implying that he is right and that's that.
4) present his opinions as facts
5) lock a thread because he disagreed with the opinions of posters who defend other creators whose work he dislikes.
I have been exposed to no evil internet conspiracy aimed at convincing me that JB's work is bad or sub par, or that he's a bad guy. I have merely read JB's own words and those words have given me the impression that he is not a likeable guy. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if I met JB in person I would be charmed. What I can say though is if JB wants to combat bad PR then: don't insult posters, don't insult other creators, tolerate differences of opinion, engage in civil debate with those you disagree with, realize that you may not always be right, and most of all don't censor others when you don't like what they have to say or where a thread is going.
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3095
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 3
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Or, people who don't agree with how John does/sees things can find other forums to read, to post in, other comics to read, etc...
I didn't mean to direct that specifically at the previous poster but it's a waste of time and energy to try and change anyone.
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Jeff Lommel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 4
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Chris, as a newcomer myself here (though I lurked for ages), I don't think that JB has done anything that, say, pretty much any creator with a message board hasn't done. They are people, and are going to have opinions on other creators work in their same chosen field. For the most part, they (including John) take the high road, but sometimes somebody just rubs you the wrong way and you have to simply say it like it is. While it's true you're not likely to change his mind on a matter, try changing anyones on a message board! As to locking a thread, his board, his right. There are plenty of threads here about artists/projects that JB isn't a fan of, including the subsection where people color his work. I don't buy that he locks threads when he disagrees with opinions of posters, not for a second. If it's the thread I think you're referring to, that thing went on for 50 (100?) pages or so before he pulled the plug.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133340
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 5
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1) insult posters for stating their opinions (the work "dickweed" was used) *** Others have already pointed out several times that this is never a first response. The poster in question has to build a big foundation before I reach this level of exasperation. +++ 2) disparrage the work of other professionals by name *** This one puzzles me. Do you imagine the comicbook industry to be some sort of Old Boys Club. where everyone pulls together and seldom is heard a discouraging word? If so, I wonder why you think a professional is not allowed the same opinions as a fan? (Have you never seen a professional "disparrage" me by name?) +++ 3) display little tolerance for differences of opinion, often telling others that they are wrong, implying that he is right and that's that. *** You infer, I do not imply. But, that aside, do you imagine there are people who disagree with the opinions of others knowing themselves to be wrong? Are you here saying that your opinion in this matter is wrong, because it runs contrary to the prevailing sentiment? Or is people having disagreeing opinions what discussion is all about? +++ 4) present his opinions as facts *** Only when they are. +++ 5) lock a thread because he disagreed with the opinions of posters who defend other creators whose work he dislikes. *** See first response.
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Robert Oren
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 March 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1209
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 6
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he only locks threads that do not follow the rules of the board...i had a thead locked where i commented on something that was stated in the rules of the forum which i did not take the time to read. guess what? was i thrown from the board?...no did i complain.......no he just protected another creator....and i have always been welcomed to this forum ...no i don't write a ton of posts but every subject i have seen has been handled fairly. ......and i have seen my share of haters come in bash and leave..........this is a great forum and people are treated with respect for the most part. even someone like me where writing this is like war and peace ,,,,,i have about an 8th grade level in writing do to a disabilty and yet the people of this forum have been kind understanding and have responded kindly to me
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JD Morrow
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 78
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'm new to this board and to be honest I was drawn here after reading something about the Van Sciver sharpie comments. After reading a lot of posts and posting a few myself I have seen JB:
1) insult posters for stating their opinions (the work "dickweed" was used)
2) disparrage the work of other professionals by name
3) display little tolerance for differences of opinion, often telling others that they are wrong, implying that he is right and that's that.
4) present his opinions as facts
5) lock a thread because he disagreed with the opinions of posters who defend other creators whose work he dislikes.
I have been exposed to no evil internet conspiracy aimed at convincing me that JB's work is bad or sub par, or that he's a bad guy. I have merely read JB's own words and those words have given me the impression that he is not a likeable guy. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if I met JB in person I would be charmed. What I can say though is if JB wants to combat bad PR then: don't insult posters, don't insult other creators, tolerate differences of opinion, engage in civil debate with those you disagree with, realize that you may not always be right, and most of all don't censor others when you don't like what they have to say or where a thread is going.
********
Chris, you've got all of 11 posts. How much talking to John have you even done to form an opinion based on your own interaction with him?
1. I haven't seen that toward any members here. I've certainly had differing opinions than him, and he hasn't insulted me for it. I know there are lots of sensitive little boys who read their comic books and rarely leave the house, but how is that anybody's fault but their own? Do you have any links to that?
2. Again, can you please provide a link? I missed him doing that. If he doesn't like something, I don't have a problem with him saying so.
3. Boo frickin' hoo. What the hell is the big deal about the guy thinking he's right and someone else is wrong. It's called an OPINION! Why on Earth does anybody think he's not entitled to one? Just because he gives his opinion doesn't mean I have to think I'm wrong, does it?
4. Seriously, you're a bit too sensitive if you're going to pull out the "presents his opinion as fact" when that's exactly what you're doing right now.
5. I said some good things about Joe Quesada, and even posted his website address and e-mail, and he didn't lock the thread or anything and hasn't given me any kind of attitude.
Look, I don't agree with everything he says, and I don't agree with certain policies of his, but I don't think he's a jerk because of that, just that he's not the same person as I am. Too many people, like yourself in this thread, only jump at the chance to get into the negatives, but the positives far outweigh the negatives, from what I've seen.
I've seen Bendis insult Rob Liefeld and Scott Lobdell, but it's never mentioned. Byrne does it, and he's an ogre... I've seen Bendis "accept" creator bashing" at his forum, unless it's one of his buddies.
I've seen Warren Ellis insult many comic fans, David Michelinie and Bob Layton's Iron-Man work (which blew away his pathetic attempt at the series..), and insult the superhero genre, in which he whores himself out to because his own garbage doesn't sell, but nobody makes it their mission to spew venom at him for it. Imagine if that was Byrne.
I've seen Mark Millar be insulting toward my country, build himself up like he's the second coming, while many times acting as if he's above "lesser" comic creators, and pretty much be an ass.
John Byrne is never going to win Miss Congeniality. Did you not know he's an opinionated guy or something? Personally, I'd love to see him draw a picture of Mike Wieringo whining like a little bitch. Mike wasn't above doing that, but I'll bet you never once voiced any displeasure about that, huh? I don't take offense when Byrne talks about "stupid fans", and the only people that would, are those who have so little confidence in themselves that they feel he's referring to them.
Seriously, the sensitivity level of some comic readers is beyond sad, and as I've said before, if I were in Byrne's position, I'd start my day off with doing or saying something that I knew would ruffle their little feathers, and when they reacted, I'd giggle my ass off about it.
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Luke Smyth
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 791
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think a lot of the negativity towards JB comes from the misconception regarding the size of his ego.
Personally, I think JB is on fairly safe ground in stating that his ego is normal sized although he cannot possibly deny that he is big headed. Sorry, after seeing that picture in the birthday thread, I couldn't resist.
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Jay Matthews
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 9
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Luke Smyth wrote:
| although he cannot possibly deny that he is big headed. Sorry, after
seeing that picture in the birthday thread, I couldn't resist. |
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You think . . . .steroids?
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17699
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| Posted: 08 July 2006 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 10
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"You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
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Taavi Suhonen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 1544
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| Posted: 09 July 2006 at 2:00am | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| Personally, I'd love to see him draw a picture of Mike Wieringo
whining like a little bitch. Mike wasn't above doing that |
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Did we ever get any proof that it was actually by Mike Wieringo? I still have hard time believing it.
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Joe Mayer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 January 2005
Posts: 1398
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| Posted: 09 July 2006 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 12
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I haven't seen any proof, but it just goes to show that in the age of the internet, people are guilty, period. Whether it is JB wanting to eat someone's baby, or Mike's role in the NYC tunnel bombings or anyone else, people believe automatic guilt when spread from an unidentified source. It makes you want to pull your hair out.
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Topic Closed)
