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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 1  

"We sometimes like to kid ourselves, don't we, that it is only in the brains of the ignorant and uneducated that racism can find purchase."-JB

This sort of intelligence and reality devide always catches me off kilter. I was working alongside a divorcee (lady) some time ago. She was in her late forties and had done quite a lot in her life. Travelled far and wide. Immediately I picked up that she was pretty religious and left this subject alone. She appeared both in her presentation and her manner as intelligent and keen. Until one day, about a year later the conversation turned to her 18 year old son, who had just started within the organisation we both worked for. The manner of how she spoke about him was uncomfortably beyond admiration to virtually prostration. She had mentioned that he had not yet got himself a girlfriend and I quipped that maybe it wasn't a girl he was waiting for. She went off on a mad rant about how homosexuals are sinners and she'd shoot* any man who he had brought home as a partner. So I said, okay, what if the other man was Jesus (I waited a year and the perfect quandry had presented itself, her hatred of Homosexuals versus her faith) she never even paused for breathe and confirmed that she'd shoot him too!

I have figured that there are reason sink-holes out there. We -all- have them. they sit there in our mind and we are oblivious to them. These sink-holes are obvious to other people. They are probably only evident to us by the way we seem to find ourselves defending one point over and over again. ask yourself if you have such a point and then review!

* I think this was more bark than bite
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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 2  

" Cad? Cad?? You been talking to my last girlfriend?"-JB

oooo, I wanted to say "pillow-talk" but didn't want to get banned[edit] or divorced if my wife reads this[/end edit]-LOL


Edited by Darren Taylor on 06 July 2006 at 11:48am
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Gail Simone
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 3  

I saw a lot of this stuff first-hand, unfortunately, when John and I were working together on Action.  Virtually no (honestly, I can't remember a one) pro friends wrote and said, "Hey, congratulations on getting to work with one of the all-time great Superman artists."

 

Nope. What they all asked, and I mean, even pros I'd never even spoken to, was what working with John was REALLY like. They were dying for me to tell them what a repulsive, racist homophobe he was. I mean, it was downright creepy.  It offended my truth-o-meter.  And when I told them the truth, that in fact, John was anything BUT racist, was in fact avidly ANTI-racist (AND one of the most outspoken creators regarding the crappy treatment of female characters...lots of male creators talk about it, John wanted to FIX it), I could actually hear the disappointment in their voices. In short, they like the ogre, they want the ogre.

Some went a good deal farther than that. It was ridiculous. I still get it to this day.

It got so bad that pros and readers who ought to know better began to cast a jaundiced eye at me, and assumed I, too, must be racist, despite my (often times to the point of absurdity) extreme beliefs about trying to show more diversity in comics on a real and committed level. Sort of a weird McCarthy-esque thing, I kid you not.

It bugs me, and (I'm sure this will just give more fodder for those who view me as biased) I've seen stuff John's said here deliberately twisted and repeated to outrage time and again. It's wrong, it's offensive, and the people doing it should be ashamed.  Yet, when John says something against racism, that never leaves this board. Of course not, doesn't fit the myth.

For the record, I didn't care for the latinas with blonde hair  comment, but I'm a hairdresser and obviously have some pretty strong thoughts in that regard. While I absolutely believe people have a right to like what they like in regards to someone's appearance, I felt that comment was (I'm sorry, John) unfair and thoughtless. Oh! And I almost forgot to add that John was a great sport when I asked him about including a gorgeous latin woman with blonde hair in Action. I'm not sure we ever got around to it, but John couldn't have been more behind the idea, so I suspect that even this has a bit of tempest-laden teapot in it.

 But the rest of that stuff they keep quoting is strictly deliberately twisted nonsense pandering to the types of people who adore that shit.


Anyway, that's my two cents, which today, is worth about no cents at all.


Gail

 

 

 

 

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Gail Simone
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 4  

Wait, I take back a bit of my first statement. IF I remember correctly, Kurt Busiek actually had nice things to say about John returning to Action.

But Kurt is always the classy one!


Gail

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JD Morrow
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 5  

Hi, Gail!

You would be a welcome presence here, so I hope to see you post a bit more. That's sad to hear that industry pros have such an attitude, especially when you consider that John Byrne was the biggest thing in comics when most of them were at their most impressionable ages.

John's also accused of being "sexist", but I haven't seen it. In fact, he hasn't had any ego problems being the artist for a woman writer, as he's worked with you twice now. Wouldn't somebody with a sexist attitude be above working under a woman's direction?

Some of these stories about John Byrne, invented by people who don't even know the guy, really are disturbing sometimes. The internet sure has created it's share of ugly people, huh?

Anyway, congrats on your new series. I'm a Marvel guy, 100%, but I broke down and picked up the first issue. I would also like to congratulate you on getting the opportunity of a lifetime for the second time, working with one of the greatest legends the field has ever known.
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Gail Simone
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | 6  

As to the charge of being sexist, all I can say is that I was genuinely surprised by the genuine anger John had about the treatment of female characters in comics on a level of basic fairness. I hear lip service about this from male creators all the time, but as I say, John was willing to put his work where his mouth is, so to speak, and make comics to fix it.

 

Gail

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Joe Franklin
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | 7  

Gail,

Thanks for posting those insights.  It's a shame that people are digging for dirt like that, but it's even more shameful when they're supposed to be professionals.

I enjoyed your ACTION COMICS run and I'm enjoying THE ALL NEW ATOM work.  You and JB are producing some very fun comics! 

Best,
Joe
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | 8  

JB's one of the few sincere guys in comics, and will always be punished accordingly for that ! 
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 9  

Opinions are like nipples.

Everybody's got one.

What?

Oh sure like you have MORE than one. Riiiiighghttt....

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Robert Oren
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 10  

you know guys....this does get sad after awhile......these people that say these things have nothing better to do than to sit in there sewing circles and spin yarns

of people they wish they were. charges smarges. if he was such a #$% he sure would not be here everyday with 22000 post talking with us.

all the things that make mankind pathetic....jealousy,envy,selfhatred,want,greed

these are what modivates these rumors....kind of sad.

by the way gail.....i love your work ....and have a crush on you

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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 11  

Thank you, Ms. Simone.
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Mark McKay
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Posted: 06 July 2006 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | 12  

I echo Wallace's comment - thanks.
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