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Topic: eternals....was jack kirby ahead of his time? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 1  

These overall numbers are better, but look at the list as a whole. The top 20 is mostly comprised of miniseries, one-shots, and #1s. Eleven of these books will not exist in a year. Once you get past the mid-30s, the books are selling below at 50,000 and below. It's great for the short-term, but I can't see Marvel and DC lasting forever on event books.
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Trevor Giberson
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 2  

Using ICV2.com's number, the Top 200 from June 2005

1

347.82

HOUSE OF M #1 (OF 8)*

$2.99

MAR

 

233,763

2

251.42

HOUSE OF M #2 (OF 8)*

$2.99

MAR

 

168,974

3

240.41

NEW AVENGERS #6*

$2.25

MAR

 

161,575

4

175.3

GREEN LANTERN #2

$2.99

DC

 

117,816

5

169.77

SUPERMAN BATMAN #20

$2.99

DC

 

114,099

6

141.91

JLA #115

$2.50

DC

 

95,375

7

140.44

VILLAINS UNITED #2 (OF 6)

$2.50

DC

 

94,387

8

139.88

OMAC PROJECT #3 (OF 6)

$2.50

DC

 

94,011

9

135.73

UNCANNY X-MEN #461*

$2.50

MAR

 

91,221

10

126.66

SPIDER-MAN HOUSE OF M #1 (OF 5)

$2.99

MAR

 

85,126

11

124.69

RANN THANAGAR WAR #2 (OF 6)

$2.50

DC

 

83,802

12

122.69

UNCANNY X-MEN #460

$2.50

MAR

 

82,457

13

119.49

X-MEN #171

$2.50

MAR

 

80,307

14

118.96

WOLVERINE #29

$2.50

MAR

 

79,951

15

118.17

ULT SPIDER-MAN #78

$2.50

MAR

 

79,420

16

117.38

X-MEN #172

$2.50

MAR

 

78,889

17

116.97

ULTIMATE X-MEN #60

$2.50

MAR

 

78,613

18

116.72

DAY O/VENGEANCE #3 (OF 6)

$2.50

DC

 

78,445

19

110.28

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #521

$2.50

MAR

 

74,117

20

104.96

TEEN TITANS #25

$2.50

DC

 

70,542

From 2004

1

226.48

IDENTITY CRISIS #1 (Of 7)***

$3.95

DC

 

163,111

2

225.07

SUPERMAN #206

$2.50

DC

 

162,095

3

185.76

ASTONISHING X-MEN #2

$2.99

MAR

 

133,784

4

145.5

ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #60

$2.25

MAR

 

104,789

5

140.46

ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #61

$2.25

MAR

 

101,159

6

140.2

ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #6

$2.25

MAR

 

100,972

7

138.08

ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #7

$2.25

MAR

 

99,445

8

136.99

UNCANNY X-MEN #445

$2.25

MAR

 

98,660

9

134.35

X-MEN #158

$2.25

MAR

 

96,759

10

134.26

ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #8

$2.25

MAR

 

96,694

11

132.26

ULTIMATE X-MEN #47

$2.25

MAR

 

95,254

12

130.85

ULTIMATE X-MEN #48

$2.25

MAR

 

94,238

13

122.59

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #509

$2.25

MAR

 

88,289

14

116.56

WOLVERINE END #4 (Of 6) (RES)

$2.99

MAR

 

83,947

15

114.85

MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN #3

$2.99

MAR

 

82,715

16

114.23

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #508

$2.25

MAR

 

82,268

17

104.74

JLA #100 (Note Price)

$3.50

DC

 

75,434

18

100

BATMAN #629

$2.25

DC

 

72,020

19

93.75

WOLVERINE #16

$2.25

MAR

 

67,519

20

92.23

TEEN TITANS #12

$2.50

DC

 

66,424

From 2003:

1

100

 

BATMAN #616

$2.25

DC

141,736

2

78.1

 

ULTIMATE X-MEN #34

$2.25

MAR

110,753

3

70.7

 

ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #42

$2.25

MAR

100,151

4

70.5

 

WOLVERINE #2

$2.25

MAR

99,867

5

69.1

 

NEW X-MEN #142

$2.25

MAR

97,897

6

64.6

 

UNCANNY X-MEN #425

$2.25

MAR

91,547

7

63.3

 

UNCANNY X-MEN #426

$2.25

MAR

89,719

8

48.4

 

INCREDIBLE HULK #56

$2.25

MAR

68,529

9

47.4

 

TRANSFORMERS GENERATION ONE VOL 2 #3 (Of 6)

$2.95

DRE

67,211

10

47.2

 

VENOM #2

$2.25

MAR

66,956

11

47.1

 

SPIDER-MAN & WOLVERINE #1 (Of 4)

$2.99

MAR

66,729

12

45.1

 

X-TREME X-MEN #27

$2.99

MAR

63,923

13

44.8

 

BORN #1 (Of 4) (MR)

$3.50

MAR

63,554

14

42.2

 

DAREDEVIL #48

$2.99

MAR

59,869

15

41.3

 

JLA #82

$2.25

DC

58,480

16

40.6

 

AVENGERS #68

$2.25

MAR

57,587

17

37.4

 

FANTASTIC FOUR #70

$2.25

MAR

53,066

18

35.3

 

MARVEL UNIVERSE THE END #6 (Of 6)

$2.99

MAR

50,004

19

34.4

 

PETER PARKER SPIDER-MAN #57

$2.25

MAR

48,686

20

33.6

 

OUTSIDERS #1

$2.50

DC

47,666

From 2002:

1 289.57 TRANSFORMERS GENERATION ONE #3 $2.95 DRE 131,586
2 260.12 SPIDER-MAN/BLACK CAT EVIL THAT MEN DO #1 (Of 4) $2.99 MAR 118,204
3 219.34 NEW X-MEN #127 $2.25 MAR 99,672
4 218.9 ULTIMATES #6 $2.25 MAR 99,473
5 217.9 NEW X-MEN #128 $2.25 MAR 99,018
6 212.44 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #42 $2.25 MAR 96,537
7 204.25 ULTIMATE X-MEN #19 $2.25 MAR 92,815
8 194.64 UNCANNY X-MEN #407 $2.25 MAR 88,448
9 192.6 ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #23 $2.25 MAR 87,521
10 149.73 SPIDER-MAN BLUE #2 (Of 6) $3.50 MAR 68,040
11 148.66 GREEN ARROW #15 (RES) $2.50 DC 67,554
12 148.43 WOLVERINE #177 $2.25 MAR 67,450
13 148.42 CAPTAIN AMERICA #3 $2.99 MAR 67,445
14 148.3 WOLVERINE #178 $2.25 MAR 67,390
15 147.87 X-TREME X-MEN #14 $2.99 MAR 67,195
16 144.88 GI JOE #7 $2.95 IMA 65,836
17 131.34 JLA #67 $2.25 DC 59,684
18 117.14 SPIDER-MAN PETER PARKER #45 $2.25 MAR 53,231
19 114.61 MICRONAUTS #1 $2.95 IMA 52,081
20 113.32 AVENGERS #55 $2.25 MAR 51,495

From 2001:

1 323.84 133,056 NEW X-MEN #115* $2.25 MAR
2 317.13 130,299 UNCANNY X-MEN #395* $2.25 MAR
3 278.24 114,320 X-TREME X-MEN #2* $2.99 MAR
4 245.18 100,737 ULTIMATE X-MEN #7 $2.25 MAR
5 209.23 85,966 PUNISHER #1 $2.99 MAR
6 200.4 82,338 GREEN ARROW #5 $2.50 DC
7 196.5 80,736 ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #10 $2.25 MAR
8 187.35 76,976 AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #32 $2.25 MAR
9 171.92 70,637 JLA #55 $2.25 DC
10 170.13 69,901 DAREDEVIL YELLOW #1 (RES) $3.50 MAR
11 166.47 68,398 WOLVERINE #165 $2.25 MAR
12 157.31 64,634 AVENGERS #43 $2.25 MAR
13 156.5 64,301 BATTLE CHASERS #9 $3.50 IMA
14 155.76 63,997 BROTHERHOOD #2* $2.25 MAR
15 141.82 58,270 DAREDEVIL #19 $2.99 MAR
16 137.55 56,515 ULTIMATE MARVEL TEAM UP #5 $2.25 MAR
17 136.05 55,899 EXILES #1 $2.99 MAR
18 126.17 51,839 SPAWN #111 $2.50 IMA
19 125.56 51,589 FANTASTIC FOUR #44 $2.25 MAR
20 124.82 51,285 PETER PARKER SPIDER-MAN #32 $2.25 MAR

 

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Matt Linton
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | 3  

"It's great for the short-term, but I can't see Marvel and DC lasting forever on event books."

I agree.  Marvel, supposedly, is taking it easy next year and focusing on "smaller" events.  It'll be interesting to see if sales stay level or if they drop back down.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 4  

I wonder how many actual regular comic buyers there are?  75,000?  50,000?  I can't imagine it's much more that that.

And I'm amazed anyone buys multiple copies of anything these days.
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Matt Linton
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 5  

Those numbers don't take into account people who only buy trades, subscribers, or the random issues bought at bookstores.  Not to mention that not everyone is buying all of those titles (I dropped 52 around issue 3, Wolverine Origins after the 1st issue, and I'm waiting for the trade on Justice).  It's nearly impossible to guage how many actual buyers there are, and Marvel and DC probably don't really care.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Chad Carter wrote:
What's laughable is how supporters of comics, superhero comics specifically, look at an Eternals comic by Gaiman and think, "This is what we need. This will heal the awful schism between what we need as great comics and the high school level Manga-esque tripe pervading the headliners."

Now because I like Gaiman and JRjr's ETERNALS book, supposedly I'm thinking that it's because it'll "heal the awful schism" you see in comics?  Wow, you've done a ton of mind reading across the board in this thread, Chad, but this has to take the cake.  I like it because I like it.  I'm not looking to this book to heal anything.  No one book ever could.  I enjoy it, therefore I'll tell others about it.  I'm not a "supporter" of anything but books I find entertaining.  Heaven forbid that I might just possibly like ETERNALS.  God forbid I tell anyone about it.  Damn me for liking a book that, in your mind, isn't working to "better" the industry save that it's a good story well told.

Give me a friggin' break.


 QUOTE:

I shrug off the Spirit because, as indicated, I believe the new series is under a watchful eye. Cooke is going to do right by the Spirit, it's in his wheelhouse, he's a grand talent himself with the correct sensibilities. Who knows about Gaiman and the Eternals? Jesus, who cares? One more poorly executed comic to join all the rest? Sing the praises. 

You'd know if you read it.  Obviously you haven't, yet you feel the need to toss around bullshit as if it's fact. Thanks for the read, however, as I now know not to put any credence in what you write concerning topics you'd rather spout off about than take the time to have an informed opinion.

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Joe Mayer
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 7  

Wow, it is pretty interesting to look at those numbers.  Thanks for posting them all.  I keep hearing so many people say that the industry is in the worst shape it has ever been in, but when you look at a five year grouping we have a 37% increase over 2001 with a consistently steady increase over the last three.  Yes, I would expect next June to be a bit smaller than this June.  We have a lot of number ones out there as well.  But I wouldn't be surprised to see it still above the 2005 numbers. 

Say what you want about people like Joe Q and Didio, but they are doing their job and it is showing.  I just wish thee was some way to include the non-direct market numbers. 

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 11:17pm | IP Logged | 8  

If indeed there is an overall sales increase (which there indeed seems to be, looking at the charts) I guess the bigger, more important question is whether a significant amount of new readers has been recruited.  If not, then the sales increase we are seeing is nothing more than a mini version of the speculator boom... existing buyers being energized by event books to buy multiple copies and create a sales upswing.
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Matt Linton
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Posted: 30 July 2006 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 9  

That's the thing, though.  We have the numbers, but no real way of knowing how many people are buying multiple copies.  Personally, I don't remember the last time I saw someone buying more than one copy of a book, but I'm sure there are many people that have seen just the opposite.  It's all anecdotal at this point.
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Matt Timson
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Posted: 31 July 2006 at 4:38am | IP Logged | 10  

This thread totally cracks me up! I've got my faults and I'd like to think that I
know what they are, but I'm at least able to say "sorry, my mistake", when
the occasion arises...
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Ed Love
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Posted: 31 July 2006 at 5:23am | IP Logged | 11  

Keep in mind, that these lists only show the performance of the top  20  comics. While it may give you an idea of the industry, it shouldn't be considered accurate and it doesn't support sweeping statements that the industry is in better shape now than it was before. We'd need far more numbers for that kind of analysis. All they really do tell us is that from Marvel & DC's perspective, event books do sell, at least in the short term. The question becomes, are those kind of numbers sustainable, can they become the new standard? If the books that aren't currently connected to any kind of stunt are selling pretty much the same as before or less, then the picture isn't quite so rosey.
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Dave Carr
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Posted: 31 July 2006 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 12  

It's very possible that the comic book audience is still shrinking.  The reason the numbers are going up is because the few that remain are getting older, presumably getting higher paying jobs, and can afford to buy more books than they did in years past.
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