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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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It's like JB telling everyone that Northstar had a crush on Sasquatch and was
jealous of Aurora in his run on Alpha Flight -- something that most JBFers
were too young to pick up on at the time, but I caught on right away.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35945
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 2
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You're not recalling incorrectly, Mig. But I don't believe that CrossGen filing for bankruptcy had anything to do with publishing finite comic books. Vertigo has been producing series with finite ends for decades and it's been doing just fine. The real reason CrossGen failed had to do with poor business practices and overextending itself beyond its capacity to survive.
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 3
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QUOTE:
| Maybe characters need to be relaunched every generation. |
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They never needed to when they we're written by competent writers; and, perhaps, when they were being sold to a more healthy non-niche market costumer base.
Perhaps the industry needs fixing, not the product with a proven track record.
Coca-Cola got their act together, before it was to late. I wonder if ME will.
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| Matt, if I was a proponent of that type of thinking, I'd be contridicting my point: there is no formula that always works at all times. If you point as sales, there are forces at work MUCH more important than editorial direction or even, dare I say it, the quality of the books. |
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Sales were fine until the 90's gimmicks started. And now it seems to be Deja Vú all over again. The product is perfectly fine, their managers, not so much.
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Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 5
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"If you don't see the appeal, that's totally cool, but IF, and I'm saying IF, there were two lines of books, both doing well, what would be your problem with that?"
All well and good for current buyers/readers, but what about new readers? Do they pick up "Amazing" or "Friendly" or "Spectacular" or "Ultimate"? I'm talking about people that don't frequent message boards or read Wizard. Grandmas that wander into a shop looking for a book for their grandkids that are coming to visit over the weekend. Or someone just getting into (or back into) comics because they saw Spider-Man 1 and 2 on DVD? Which version of Spider-Man are they going to relate to, and how in the heck will they know the difference before reading the book. I mean, that is if one can read a single issue of most books these days and not be totally lost in the middle of a 13 part mega story with crossovers.
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
| You're not recalling incorrectly, Mig. But I don't believe that CrossGen filing for bankruptcy had anything to do with publishing finite comic books. Vertigo has been producing series with finite ends for decades and it's been doing just fine. |
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Vertigo is banked by Dc Comics (which interestingly enough is banked by TimeWarner). I believe that i heard some of it's writers already state that they have very few illusions that what they do there, would not be financially feasable on it's own (company).
QUOTE:
| The real reason CrossGen failed had to do with poor business practices and overextending itself beyond its capacity to survive. |
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Overextending themselves beyond the capacity of the audience to bank and consume such a product?
You see, i believe the current purveyors of the hailing of the new Characterization-driven (usually just means a couple of cute jokes a lá BENDIS!), high concept (usually just means deconstructionism, a lá Moore), and sophistication (glam-shock, a lá Miller), et al, all are seriously overestimating the will of the public to consume this stuff.
Yes, they have extremely activist foot soldiers, and vocal ones, but both the quality of the product they claim to bring, and the wish of the consumers to hail this new "wave of the future" is grossly overestimated.
Lo, and behold, exactly the pit CrossGen fell into.
Their own very name points to a pompous hails of a generation to come, so much better than the Kirbys and Ditkos and their adolescent spandex wearers, and so much better sellers!
Neither one, nor the other; prayed a certain chapter 11 of their histories.
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Matt Linton
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Joined: 13 December 2005
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 7
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Excellent point. I don't think there's anything wrong with special projects (minis/GNs) featuring different versions, but the ongoing monthly exploits of a character shouldn't be vastly different from each other.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 8
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Mig, overextending itself beyond its resources. Quite simply, it ran out of cash. I don't think that has anything to do with publishing finite series which, by the way, not all series published by CrossGen were intended to be finite. You could make the sketchy correlation between finite series and bankruptcy, but I don't think there's a stitch of evidence to prove that. I heard from quite a few people that the titles they produced were really good. They just didn't appeal to me in the same way some titles from Marvel and DC don't appeal to me, but the turn off for me wasn't finite series at all. BTW, neither Millar, Bendis, or Moore worked for CrossGen. In point of fact, very conservative, traditional writers worked for the company like Chuck Dixon and Ron Marz. Bart Sears and George Perez, among others, were also signed to exclusive contracts. To paint the company only as a bunch of Millar/Bendis/Moore wannabes would be a gross generalization bordering on the insane only to make a point.
Good article on the demise of the company:
http://www.stpetetimes.com/2004/06/30/Business/Dark_spell_fo r_comic_.shtml
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Ian M. Palmer
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Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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Key phrase, in my view:
We check back in on him every so often
Not customers, then. The requirements of the consumer who checks back in every so often, when you're producing a monthly periodical, are, functionally, irrelevant.
IMP.
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John Mietus
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 10
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Matt Reed wrote:
[A] gross generalization bordering on the insane only to
make a point. |
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Sure sounds like Mig to me.
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Lance Hill
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Joined: 22 April 2005
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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If I'm reading you correctly Ian, I'm not sure I'd agree with that. With any serialised media, the impulse consumers who only catch an episode every once in a while are crucially important. I think a lot of comics publishers would do well with focusing more on that audience rather than just the regular readers.
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John Mietus
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 18 June 2006 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 12
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Exactly -- because they have the potential of becoming repeat customers.
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Topic Closed)
