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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: May 11 2005
Posts: 134701
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 1
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If Herb Trimpe or Curt Swan is known to sell x thousand copies of a book, but Joe Newbie comes in the door and asks for a shot, the editor may pick Joe Newbie on the the chance that he will sell 2x thousand copies of a book. If he only sells x thousand, he's no worse off, and if he sells less, he just replaces Joe Newbie with Jane Rookie and tries again.**** A "What if?" scenario does not an argument make. Can you cite specific instances of this happening? Name names? Otherwise, you point has no validity and we are back to David Miller invoking rumor as fact.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: May 11 2005
Posts: 134701
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 12:45am | IP Logged | 2
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But I must ask JB.... what is a fan like me to do? Should I stop buying all of today's published works as a protest and just read and collect older stuff as I am doing more and more?*** "Vote with your wallet" has always been the only choice a fan has, as a means of signaling his likes and dislikes. Unfortunately, the DSM has severely reduced the "power of the pocketbook" of the average fan, as we have seen instances where retailers refuse to order product they don't like. In the end, it means the ultimate say in what succeeds and what fails lies in the hands of a few thousand retailers, not tens of thousands of fans/readers. And the Companies are still compelled to "follow the money".
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Jon Godson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: January 05 2005
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 3
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Hasn't the success of Astro City proved that their is a market for traditional
super-hero stories?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: May 11 2005
Posts: 134701
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 12:49am | IP Logged | 4
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But the publishers also deserve blame for pursuing a business model that leaves fans as the only audience, eliminating the casual readers who used to dominate the audience and could have cared less about who drew the book as long as the story was told clearly.**** You are using the word "fan" in it's narrowest context. I use it, here, to mean anyone who reads/buys comics on a regular basis. The "casual reader" has never been shown to have a significant impact on overall sales. Books depend for their success on readers who come back month after month, looking for the same product. Same with TV shows -- the Networks are not hoping an ever shifting demographic will tune in week to week to watch their latest offerings. They are hoping a show will develop a following. Not rabid, anal-retentives, but people who are there every week for "must see TV".
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Scott Rowland
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: October 19 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 166
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 5
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"A "What if?" scenario does not an argument make.
Can you cite specific instances of this happening? Name names?
Otherwise, you point has no validity and we are back to David Miller
invoking rumor as fact."
I was indicating a possible scenario, not invoking rumor - hence the use of made up names for the new artists and no identification of any particular editor. I think that there may be more than a single reason that newer artists are hired and older, established artists displaced. (Or writers, for that matter.) That particular scenario may not be the case, but it seems plausible to me.
As you've mentioned in the past, X-Men: Hidden Years was cancelled while making money and selling much better than other series that were continued -- so obviously, that book and that market for established creators John Byrne and Tom Palmer didn't disappear because the fans weren't buying it.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: June 01 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7562
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 6
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I'd love to see Curt Swan come back to Superman; he was the guy on the books when I was first discovering the character and a lot of the stories he drew were powerful as all-get-out to me. This was back in the days when kids wondered if the hero would make it out alive from one issue to the next, of course.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: May 11 2005
Posts: 134701
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 7
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I'd love to see Curt Swan come back to Superman...
****
I hate to be the one to do this, if you actually don't
know, but Curt died several years ago.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: May 11 2005
Posts: 134701
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 8
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As you've mentioned in the past, X-Men: Hidden Years was cancelled while making money and selling much better than other series that were continued -- so obviously, that book and that market for established creators John Byrne and Tom Palmer didn't disappear because the fans weren't buying it. **** I think we can discount editorial spite as an aberation, not actual policy.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: June 01 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7562
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 9
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JB: I hate to be the one to do this, if you actually don't know, but Curt died several years ago.
****
Oh man... that's going to bum me out all day. But thanks for letting me know, JB.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: December 21 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 10
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Curt Swan's last comic was an issue of Swamp Thing, if I remember correctly. The story was a political satire about an aging hippy who goes conservative, remaining just as absurd as he was before. It's interesting that there was more of an audience for him on a Vertigo book than on the superhero character that he was most famous for drawing.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: August 25 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5120
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 11
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I could never understand why DC let Crt just fall by the wayside when it came to Superman.
It wasn't as if there was a shortage of books for him to work on.
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Jon Godson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: January 05 2005
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: June 16 2006 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 12
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After seeing Swan's art on Superman in Action Weekly, it made me wonder
why he wasn't nabbed for newspaper syndication for the same work.
I've always been amazed at the accuracy of Swan's work. When I look at
those 70s Superman and Action stories that takes place in the Daily Planet
and WGBS - where the staff are working, drinking from water fountains,
walking through halls, taking elevators, Clark is forever tripping, sneaking
away, dashing to the store room, etc. - and every thing is PERFECT in
perspective and proportion.
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