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Todd Hembrough Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 4172
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Posted: 13 June 2006 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | 1
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By the way, Did Rob really leave?
--
Not listed in members anymore, so I assume he did leave.
T
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 14 June 2006 at 12:06am | IP Logged | 2
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In the Swedish interview (70's) Curt Swan explained that sometimes he
drew pages and sketches for other artists, fill-ins etc that he had to
rush and when he wasn't pleased he tried to not getting his name on the
piece. Please don't consider every Curt Swan page fill-in a real Curt
Swan page. It will be like the "lost Chaplin footage" show I
watched as a kid., that made me delusionally think "Chaplin was not so
good after all".
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Zaki Hasan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8105
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Posted: 14 June 2006 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 3
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Not listed in members anymore, so I assume he did leave.
****
He didn't leave so much as the locks were changed when he was out.
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Ian M. Palmer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 1342
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Posted: 14 June 2006 at 2:56am | IP Logged | 4
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The marketplace -- the fans -- have increasingly turned their backs on other genres, however. And, as many of those fans have become retailers who will not even consider ordering books that are not "hot" or in some other way fitting their narrow perception of what comics should be, the door has swung even more toward the "closed" position. When a paying customer can be told "We don't order So-and-so -- his stuff doesn't sell," you know the industry is in trouble.
Narrowest possible route to the smallest possible market. Idiot business. What other business in the world will only deal with amateurs, and doesn't want the general public to find out about its product?
IMP.
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Steve Lieber Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 July 2004 Posts: 295
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 1:20am | IP Logged | 5
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Here's Neal Adams talking about the sales-tax angle on original art ownership:
There were
some other incentives for them to (return the original art). For example, there was a
private conversation in which was said, “It probably wouldn’t be very
good for DC Comics if someone called the state of New York and said DC
Comics thinks that they own all these pages of original art, some of
which they have destroyed, some of which they have kept, as if it were
property; and of course they would have had to pay sales tax on it.”
So, they would have had to pay
sales tax on 50 years worth of original art. That would have been a
little expensive. It was better for them to agree that the artwork
belonged to the artist, that they never bought it as a piece of
property and that the copyright law really didn’t say they owned it.
[Better that] it said they are supposed to return it. If somebody had
made a phone call, things would have gotten heavy. So, it was all very
nice.
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Kyle Sing Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: United States Posts: 261
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 6
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JB,
The fact that great talents like Curt Swan don't get offered work anymore is truly without a doubt a sickening waste of talent.
I wondered if you had any insight into why the industry will take care of some (ex. George Perez getting a 5 year exclusive contract with DC, Joe Kubert gets some DC projects) and yet talents like Ditko, Swan, and others are left on the sidelines? Why do some get celebrated and respected while others don't?
Additionally, I feel that your talent is being largely under utilized as well. I was introduced to comics that you wrote and pencilled (Superman and Alpha Flight) and the fact that the industry seems unwilling to give you more high profile projects nowadays (JLA, X-Men, GL) perplexes (frusturates) me.
Kyle
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 7
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It all comes down to sales, Kyle. George still commands an audience. Kubert has a small army of loyal fans (myself amongst them). Others -- again, myself amongst them -- see their careers destroyed by the Direct Sales Market. A couple of decades ago, retailers refused to order Jack "the Hack" Kirby. A classic example of "What have you done for me lately?" Then the Image Boys adopted Kirby as their mascot, claiming to have suffered as he did under the cruel lash of Marvel -- "suffered" being here defined as making more from a single issue of characters they did not create than Kirby made in a year or more (even adjusted for inflation) -- so suddenly it became kewl to invoke Kirby's name and heap (often excessive) praise upon his work. Ditko, alas, has not been so fortunate. Neither was Swan.I'll say it again: all the blame falls upon the fans. Those who run the shops, those who buy the product. Even setting aside the great glee they seem to have when they see one of the old guard topple -- the assaults on Kirby were vile beyond words -- if they will not support a talent like Curt Swan, the Companies -- who, after all, are businesses -- cannot be expected to publish work they know has no market.
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Matthew Hansel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3469
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 8
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It is unfortunate, too, that the fans seem to take such pleasure in watching parts of the old guard tumble.
I often wish that the companies would not be so knee-jerked reactionary to what they read on the internet, or read about in letters, when it comes to certain talents...in fact...the companies seem to have lost sight that is isn't about TALENT X doing BATMAN...it should be about BATMAN! The companies market the CHARACTERS for licensing, afterall, not the TALENT.
Yet another way the industry has changed for the worst.
MPH
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Anthony Vincent Taliaferro Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 23
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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“DC and Marvel should be blamed for casting off the
creators”.
I agree with David. David was able to bring up his points
intelligently, and John, you opt to get all smartass and cuss at him. Wow.
Edited by Anthony Vincent Taliaferro on 15 June 2006 at 2:42pm
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Ed Aycock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1004
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 10
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I also hate how fans tend to eat their own. Not only will they say, "So and so doesn't sell" but they'll look at you as though you have two heads for loving a creator/artist/writer. I no longer suffer fools as gladly as I once did, and just chalk it all up to "Small d*ck Syndrome". Once they've destroyed the market, then what do they do? Rut among the ruins?
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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"Unfortunately too many blinders are up and fans usually don't know when somebody they really admire from their youth is working on something in the present day. How many of you bought Dick Ayers' Chips Wilde or Bob Layton and Dick Giordano's Future comics? What about Mike Vosburg's Linda Lovecraft? JB gets the same crap from folks who refuse to try his latest, greatest stuff by insisting that it's X-Men and FF or nothing."
I'm more interested in seeing creators garner some respect. Every old guy who used to work regularly and no longer does deserves a shot at something substantial. And if you're a Mike Zeck fan, you know what Zeck's doing. Or Byrne, or Sal Buscema. Or Colan or Ditko. I know, logically, the men who once worked in the industry are no longer interested in it. Publishing has changed, in all phases. Douche bags run the culture.
Emotionally, I want to see stuff like when John Buscema came back to the AVENGERS in the 80s and stayed for years. At this point, if somebody said Keith Pollard was taking up pencilling a new THOR comic, or Hawkman, or Metal Men, or any thing, I'd be there naked in cowboy boots hitting myself in the head with a dead flounder. And not because I love Pollard, but he's one of the guys I grew up on, and he should be working somewhere. He's not one of the greats, but he is or was a solid comics producer.
Course, maybe he's dead. Who knows?
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Ted Pugliese Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 7985
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Posted: 15 June 2006 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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I agree with Kyle. I simply do not understand why JB is not working more, especially on higher profile books. It truly boggles my mind or worse. I cannot wrap even a neuron around this. Why hasn't JB been asked to do an issue or arc of Jonah Hex? Why hasn't he been asked to do art chores on Batman or Detective? Why isn't he doing Secret Six with Gail or Birds of Prey? Why? And why haven't we heard what's next? There better be something next!
And if he is not staying on the Atom, are they handing that to Trevor Scott like we originally thought? Hasn't anyone seen that this guy could be JB's Scott Williams, i. e. Trevor adds whatever energy it is that Scott adds to Jim Lee that makes him so striking? That would make Brad Meltzer's JLA really SHINE!
Most of all, I would love to see story, pencils, inks, and letters by JB on whatever the hell he wants to do (I wish it was Hal Jordan, Green Lantern or GLC)! Regardless, what is Next, Man? Let us know...
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