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Neil Welch
Byrne Robotics Member
Troll
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Antarctica
Posts: 275
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| Posted: 12 June 2006 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 1
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Grief! Who said that?!?
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Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 12 June 2006 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 2
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I was told in the Swedish one and only Superman book before the switch that Mr. Swan was going to retire, still my calculations at the time when I was a kid showed that he was not 100 yeras old, as he was close to 70 I believe when he suddenly passed away as announced in the Superman books. He was a also as he put it "an old Swede". Perhaps he even spoke some words. I'm sorry about some Curt Swan masterpieces that could have been when he instead was looking for work.
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James Hanson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2006
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: 12 June 2006 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 3
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It really is disturbing to see how great comic pros are treated. I was
faced with the decision of schooling and really wanted to get into
comic book art as I'm fairly talented. After reading stories about Herb
Trimpe, Jack Kirby, and various other guys who were consumate
professionals not being able to get work, in addition to the current
state of the industry, it seemed wise to invest my GI Bill's education
benefits into something a bit more stable. I still draw for fun though.
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Jim O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2005
Posts: 336
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| Posted: 12 June 2006 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 4
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It would've been great if Curt had somehow been worked into the mix after JB took over. IMO, he was saddled with so many hokey scripts pre-Crisis that he spent a lot of time making silk purses out of sow's ears.
It would've been nice to see what he'd have done with some good, solid Superman stories from JB (and later, Roger Stern, Jerry Ordway, etc.). I think his last big Superman story might have been that 3-parter he did for the October, 1990 Superman books; that was "Curt Swan Month", and the story was by Bill Messner-Loebs, another consummate professional who can't get work anymore...
Edited by Jim O'Neill on 12 June 2006 at 9:46am
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Chuck Wells
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1244
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| Posted: 12 June 2006 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 5
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You guys really ought to read Men of Tomorrow by Gerard Jones. Curt Swan doesn't factor into the well-researched history of geeks, gangsters and the birth of the comic book, but two guys by the names of Siegel and Shuster do.
Talk about shabby treatment!
This book, along with another recent one focusing on Jack Kirby's life (Tales to Astonish), reveal lots of shameful tactics perpetrated against some of the industries best, but also - in my opinion - reveal how these very creative men allowed themselves be taken advantage of in too many instances.
Edited by Chuck Wells on 12 June 2006 at 9:53am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 12 June 2006 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 6
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One online "critic" tried to lay blame for Curt Swan's departure from Superman on JB.*** In recent years, in keeping with my observation that stories about me tend to invert the truth, it has become popular in certain corners of fandom to claim that I was offered "anything you want" at DC, and that I chose Superman, thereby causing Curt to be fired. This in spite of the fact that my hiring to do the Superman titles was well-documented at the time, including such details as DC asking several different writer and artists to submit their proposals, Superman being the only thing on the table, and my proposal simply being the one chosen. It also omits my efforts to find work for Curt, of course. Further proof, if any be needed, that small niceties such as the truth are of no interest to the sad boys on the internet. (Look for these tales to resurface, now, with even greater vigor.)
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Kurt Anderson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 November 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2035
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| Posted: 13 June 2006 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 7
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You don't realize what you had until it's gone.
Curt Swan still had some great stories in him. "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" proved that. Teamed with a decent writer, he could've produced.
So many projects that he could've made classic, not only for DC... imagine a Captain America by Swan, or an Avengers or All Winners Squad flashback series...
Years of talent gone unused.
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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13682
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| Posted: 13 June 2006 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 8
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Kurt wrote: "So many projects that he could've made classic, not only for DC... imagine a Captain America by Swan, or an Avengers or All Winners Squad flashback series..."
*************************
Wow, great question! Trying to imagine what MARVEL characters drawn by Swan would look like is one of those things that makes my head explode! I believe the only work he ever did for MARVEL was the Gladiator figure for the Official Handbook to the MU...which is cool but it's really just Superman with a mohawk.
Imagine the HULK, Thor, X-Men...
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Jon Godson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 January 2005
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 9
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For some of the best comics ever, I recommend the Shooter/Swan Legion
stories. I discovered them in the DC Archives and was blown away.
Shooter's plotting and characterization was unlike anything that DC was
doing at the time (from what my meager research can tell) and Swan's art -
while not cutting-edge Science Fiction art by today's standard - was
amazing in its accuracy in people, perspective and layout design.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3036
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| Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| What about the comic industry makes the companies so willing to discard its talent?
***
The
fans. You've seen how fast they turn, how someone who is "hot" one year
can be stone cold the next -- and there is nothing, it seems, that the
fans love more than to see the titans of bygone days torn down. How
else does Jack Kirby become "Jack the Hack"? How else does Steve Ditko
go without work? |
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Blaming the fans doesn't
explain why the industry is such a cesspool from top to bottom, from beginning
to now. It wasn't the fans who illegally withheld Kirby's original
art. It wasn't the fans who reneged on agreements with Steve Ditko.
It wasn't fans who stole the idea for Superboy and fired Siegel and
Schuster. It wasn't fans who kept Bill Finger's name off of Batman.
No, it comes down to the companies, and the executives at those
companies. To their rapacious pursuit of a short-term buck, to
their
denobled commitment to maintaining a bottom line by pandering to the
lowest
common denominator, and their blighted elevation of the characters
(read:
trademarks) over the talent responsible for creation. A long time
ago,
comic companies sacrificed the possibility of growing the medium,
expanding its
artistry, and laying the groundwork for long-term growth by turning the
industry into a meat-grinder, focused on the next monthly sales.
It's no surprise that artists fall by the wayside, when the exceptions
to the rule, like Stan Lee, are few and far between (and even he --
Stan the Man -- has taken his knocks. Yeah, he's controversial
among fans, but Marvel is where it counts, and he had to sue them to
get his contractual share of the Spider-Man movies. He had to sue
Marvel -- not the fans).
Because of Russ
Cochran, a fan, almost the entire EC library is available in multiple formats. It is fans who are pressuring DC and Marvel to reprint
Jack Kirby's seminal work, and who buy it when they do. When a title by a new talent (or a
veteran who has fallen out of favor) is just barely scraping by, you bet what sales there are, are being
made to fans.
Lay off the fans, and put the blame where it belongs: DC and Marvel.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 11
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Fans can be just as cold as the publishers, David.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 12
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It wasn't the fans who illegally withheld Kirby's
original art.
****
Neither did anybody else.
++++
It wasn't the fans who reneged on agreements with
Steve Ditko.
****
Which "agreements" were these?
+++
It wasn't fans who stole the idea for Superboy and
fired Siegel and Schuster.
****
The courts declared Superboy a "separate creation".
Siegel and Shuster were not fired.
++++
It wasn't fans who kept Bill Finger's name off of
Batman.
****
No, that would be Bob Kane's lawyers.
++++
Lay off the fans, and put the blame where it belongs:
DC and Marvel.
****
So you think DC and Marvel should publish books
they know the fans won't buy?
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