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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 1
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Oh, I'm with you there, Jim. It just staggers me that with such great stuff
throughout Sparky's career, why they would pick some of the less-inspired
obtuse stuff from the '90s to rerun is beyond me. But I agree -- Peanuts at
its lowest was still miles above the rest of the comics page.
Anyone remember when Garfield was genuinely funny?
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Matt Linton
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Joined: 13 December 2005
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:18am | IP Logged | 2
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Sadly, no. The high points for me are (or rather, were) Calvin and Hobbes, The Far Side, Bloom County, and occasionally Boondocks. Peanuts was well past it's high point by the time I started reading it, but I can recognize the talent. Especially after working on a strip. Schultz (Schulz?) made it look easy.
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Jim O'Neill
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Joined: 12 April 2005
Posts: 336
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:29am | IP Logged | 3
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John, I haven't read the Chicago Tribs' comics page in a while, but last time I looked, they were pulling from the early/mid 70's~ my teenage years. There is that obtuseness in the later strips...
Matt, I can't recommend Fantagraphics Complete Peanuts hardcovers enough. The first 5 volumes are amazing, and Sparky is just hitting his stride! Plus, I got to see which strip appeared on my birthday (2/18/59). Funny, I hadn't thought of that until I actually got Vol. 5 home.
Say, what the hell am I doing up this late?
'Night, guys...
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Matt Linton
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Joined: 13 December 2005
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:32am | IP Logged | 4
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Thanks, Jim. I'll definitely check it out (and by that I mean it'll go on my to buy list and hopefully I'll get be able to afford it sometime this year).
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Jim Yingst
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 866
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:36am | IP Logged | 5
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John wrote:
| Anyone remember when Garfield was genuinely funny? |
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Oooh, yeah. As I recall, the first year or two were pretty damn funny. It's a
pity the originality wasn't sustained. But to be fair, I'm thinking that's a
pretty big challenge that few creators can rise to. I'm happy enough to
enjoy a series while it is enjoyable, and find something else to enjoy
after that.
Edited by Jim Yingst on 17 June 2006 at 12:37am
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Floyd Kermode
Byrne Robotics Member
Worked Really Hard to Get Banned
Joined: 12 June 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 36
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 1:26am | IP Logged | 6
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It's true that comics haven't become respectable but that's hardly Moore's fault. They don't deserve respectability and I don't think he's ever said that he was setting out to make them respectable. I don't think he'd see the comics he characterized as one and two dimensional would deserve respectability. The claim that this that or the other serious graphic novel thing is about to make comics respectable is trotted out from time to time and is one of those journalistic stand-bys, that's all.
I see how you could reasonably say that comics have become too smutty and dark but agree with those who said that you can hardly hold Moore responsible for his imitators. I remember Moore himself said he thought the 'dark reimagining' thing had gone too far and that any day now it would get to the point where Caspar the Friendly Ghost had a necklace of human ears.
I can indeed remember when Garfield was hilarious.
Anyway, beyond the argument about who has changed a core concept more than whom, I wonder what the point of keeping a character's 'core concept' is at all. Core concept seems to mean 'what I see as important about a character'. For me, making the Fantastic Four into teenagers, as some recent covers seem to have done, violates their core concepts because the characters seem to me to be innately non-teenagerish. But if the story is a good one in its own right, more power to their elbow. Good for them. So, while it's possible that the original Swamp Thing stories were works of genius, I doubt that reading them would make Moore's Swamp Thing any less brilliant for me. He's provided a great character, realistic in an unrealistic setting and very readable, which is really the point of it for me.
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Greg McPhee
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Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5091
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 3:26am | IP Logged | 7
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To be honest, Floyd, I never thought Alan Moore improved much on what Len Wein and Berni Wrightson created in the first place.
I always preferred Swamp Thing as a scientist trying to find a cure for his condition and wandering the world helping people in need.
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Maha Deva
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Joined: 08 February 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 5:30am | IP Logged | 8
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Yeah, the Wein & Wrightson issues were always my favourite.
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John Mietus
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 9
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Jim Yingst wrote:
Oooh, yeah. As I recall, the first year or two were pretty
damn funny. It's a pity the originality wasn't sustained. |
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That's what I was thinking -- I'd go so far as to say the first two or three
years. Back when Jim Davis was actually writing and drawing the strip.
Calvin and Hobbes was the last strip I truly sought out, though occasionally I
still get a good chuckle out of Foxtrot.
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Jay Matthews
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Joined: 11 October 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 10
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No love for Dilbert?
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Matt Linton
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Joined: 13 December 2005
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 11
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Dilbert is a little too specific for me. I haven't really worked in any kind of corporate office structure, so I don't get a lot of the jokes.
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John Mietus
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| Posted: 17 June 2006 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 12
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No love for Dilbert, no love for Far Side (beyond a few notable exceptions). I
just don't care for the former's style of humor, and the latter was too
derivative of Charles Addams, Gahan Wilson and B. Kliban for me to really
enjoy his work, particularly when everyone around me seemed to think it
was oh so original and unique.
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