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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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I don't see the point in arguing with an established creator about another established creator, when the philosophies behind their work are diametrically opposed and your (Timson's) "points" will be lost. I agree that John Byrne's views on Moore are overt, but he's earned the right to make them. It is true that Moore has no interest whatsoever in respecting the history of comic characters, to his own ends, but it's been pointed out that no character has to be descontructed forever. If DOOM PATROL can be brought back to its roots after Grant Morrison, any title can be returned to what it once was. Including MIRACLEMAN.
Edited by Chad Carter on 16 June 2006 at 3:15pm
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Matt Timson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 2
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Fair point- and one I'll not argue with. Any character is only screwed up
until the next retcon after all...
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Derek Rogers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 523
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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And I think it's an odd arguement that only a creator can change a character, or that for that matter that any change is permenant. For a start the majority of creators of the superhero folk are long gone. Does that mean they should be static and unchanging? By subtle degrees characters have been changed and adapted to fit the world they're produced.
*****
Real change in comics is bad. It's the illusion of change that makes it interesting.
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Trevor Giberson Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 1888
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 4
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I wonder what comics would be like if no series or character were continued
past the point where the original writer and artist were working on them....
Edited by Trevor Giberson on 16 June 2006 at 3:28pm
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David Brunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 154
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 5
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I don't think real change is ALWAYS bad. I disagree with the motives behind the shooting of Barbara Gordon but think the change it brouight to the character was a great thing.
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9704
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 6
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Endless repeats of unfunny Peanuts strips in the newspaper, Trevor.
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David Brunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 154
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 7
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Oh, and whose to say that if a comic creator makes changes they're going to be any good. Look at what Chester Gould added to Dick Tracy. Moon Maiden springs to mind. Nothing Max Allen Collins did was more off core (not that I necesarily agree with that comcept) than that.
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Trevor Giberson Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 1888
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | 8
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Endless repeats of unfunny Peanuts strips in the newspaper, Trevor.
Beats having, say, Johnny Hart taking over Peanuts... or they could just end,
like Bloom County and Calvin & Hobbes.
Edited by Trevor Giberson on 16 June 2006 at 4:57pm
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 9
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Of course, now that you seem to be saying that because the 'lie' is nearly always the rule (which it isn't), that it's ok to generalise? Interesting.
When a strong pattern is clearly established (and "everything you know is a lie" most definately is) in abody of work am I to understand you that it is somehow NOT okay to generalize? Is that not WHY we actually make generlizations in the first place?
That's a laughable ridiculous statement akin to "I'm not vegetarian because I ate part of a drumstick four years ago. Don't generalize me as a vegetarian."
By those lights Salvadore Dali was not really a surrealist because we dare no generalize his work.
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David Brunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 154
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 10
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Perhaps. But then there are things like the Mary Tourtell created Rupert The Bear which was created to order in response to competition but was taken over and became sublimely good and a fixture of British Childhood ever since because of what Alfred Bestalls work. If they'd stopped after Mary left the strip he'd be a forgotten non entity in the world of newspaper strips. Thanks to Bestall, and his eventual succesor John Harold he's still entertaining millions of kids. Certainly not better to stop in that case.
Are theer people who could continue Peanuts. Certainly, just as there are people who can and do follow on from Chester Gould. The strip isn't continued because, like Modesty Blaise, the creator remained the same throughout the run and he chose to walk away after decades behind the pen. If either had died in the job would there strips have been relegated to repears if they appear at all. Who knows but I suspect not.
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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One thing I don't get is why Moore is singalled out for 'everything is a lie' ness when comics have, almost uniquely as a story telling media, have a long history of playing that card.
Moore is "singled out" because 1.) we are talking about Marvel Man/Miracle Man and 2.) Moore took the deconstructive redefinition of super heroes thing to an extreme and was applauded for it and widely imitated(usually badly) until what was a weird and intense sideline of super hero comics morphed into the main product.
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Matt Timson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 12
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As the rest of the world moved on and made friends, Emery returned to
retcon the situation back to the way it was...
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