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Derek Rogers
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Joined: 07 April 2006
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 1  

I'm quite happy at Bryne's reinterpretation of Superman- and
was annoyed when DC started undoing it- but I'm at a complete loss as to
why you're so outraged at Moore's reinvention of a character you'd never
even heard of.

*****

Byrne's reinterpretation of Superman stayed true to the mythos of Superman.  He was still Earth's greatest hero.  Moore took Marvelman to the extreme and the result resembled nothing like the original.  What if he had deconstructed Archie Comics and showed real teenagers engaging in sex, doing drugs, getting drunk, etc (you know like real teenagers!  haha)?  Nothing against stories like that but why would he have to use Archie?

just my $.02.

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John Mietus
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 2  

JB always puts his toys back in the toybox when he's done playing with
them. Alan Moore leaves the broken pieces strewn about the floor after he
finishes pissing on them.
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Matt Timson
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 3  

I'm still going with 'conversational cul-de-sac', I'm afraid...
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Jim O'Neill
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 4  

Guys, if he doesn't see the difference between the beginning of a story arc that JB never finished (the Hulk), if he doesn't understand that DC was going to revamp Superman anyway~ JB or not~ then how do you expect him to wrap his mind around an abstract like "core concept"? 
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Matt Timson
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 5  

I bow to your superior wisdom...
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 6  

OK I'm ignoring the man with the George Michael avatar. 
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Ian M. Palmer
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 7  

Is this repetitive debate over yet?

I thought the revamp of Superman did an almost-perfect job of updating him (to the late 1980s) and making him interesting again in a different way and in the context of a cluttered superhero universe fifty years old. I enjoy reprints of the older Superman, but I'm aware that the 1950s Superman wasn't appearing in new comics by the '80s and would be difficult to sell sustainably by then anyway.

I was unaware of Marvelman before Miracleman. I now appreciate Marvelman in the same way as those Superman reprints, but Miracleman isn't that character. Perhaps Moore should have used a different name, a different costume and different background elements, but Marvelman was long dead by the time of Miracleman, and it's not unreasonable to say that if hardly anyone remembered him, there was hardly anyone to offend.

Miracleman is a great comic: not one which could run for twenty years, and not an upbeat one, but an interesting and powerful exploration of some aspects and implications of this superhero thing. It's also long out of print, and unknown to most current comics readers. In itself, not a lot of harm done.

Also, I like the name Miracleman, but I believe I'm the only one ever.

IMP.

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Derek Rogers
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 8  

I'm still going with 'conversational cul-de-sac', I'm afraid...

*****

No disrespect but what kind of answers were you looking for?

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 9  

I'm still going with 'conversational cul-de-sac', I'm afraid...

***

'Cul-de-sac' here defined as a direct discussion of the issue you brought up, apparently. 

(Hands over ears) "I win because I can't hear you!  Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba!"



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Matt Timson
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 10  

No offence, but I'm not looking for any kind of answers from Emery at all.
He's got one opinion, I've got another. In a sane and sensible world, that
ought to be the begining and end of it. Any continuation is futile. I don't
know if you have cul-de-sacs in the US, but over here, they're little
streets that don't actually lead anywhere.

All I'd really like is for John to justify saying that Moore has nothing else
to offer other than the 'lie'. Clearly, not all of Moore's stories can revolve
around this concept, so why say it? If he doesn't want to justify it, then
fair enough. Either way, I find it mind numbingly mental that to ask John
for a straight answer on this, I must automatically be a massive Moore fan
and a Byrne Hater!

You couldn't make it up!

I don't know what else you want me to say really.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 11  

For defending Byrne's revamp work vs. Moore's I was, according to you Matt, automatically his subject in need of him to form my own opinion for me. Disagreeing with you made me an extension of Byrne's will. That was your inital contribution to out discussion. NOW you want to bitch loudly about me examining the contents of your argument, your approach, your words, and  on that basis doutbing your loud and inconsistent protestations that you are both a Moore fan and a Byrne fan just objectively looking for some simple answers? All the while you were painting me a Moore hater and Byrne fan and ignoring my counter arguments...yep.

It sounds to me like you're being a tad arbitrary here. And pedantic. And flat out full of it.



Edited by Emery Calame on 16 June 2006 at 1:20pm
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Matt Timson
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Posted: 16 June 2006 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 12  

Why don't you go back and read your posts regarding Moore? It's not too
hard to see why you come across as being a Moore hater, is it? Your
arguments are exactly that- your arguments. I don't agree with them. I
don't have to agree withthem. I thought we'd covered this?
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