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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 1
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Paul, Warren Ellis has no control whatsoever over who gets hired to write a book. If anyone is to "blame" it's the comic book companies that hire him instead of someone else. Much as I love Ellis' work, I'd much rather see him do nothing but independent/non-superhero books like Transmet, Fell, and Planetery. And there's a laundry list of writer's I'd rather see on more books, starting with Roger Stern, JB, Doug Moench, Steve Englehart, etc. Ellis "stepping aside" isn't going to make that happen. Neither is posting on message boards. What might help is writing letters, or emails to TPTB at Marvel and DC asking about any forthcoming projects by those creators, as well as buying books that do come out from those folks.
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Jason Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 2
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An aside - 'tourist' might be the best descriptor for today's 'hot' comic creators that I've ever heard.
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | 3
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What might help is NOT buying super-hero books by the Warren Ellis' of the world, and pick up books by the Slott's. Maybe it hurts, but letting Amazing Spider-Man go (for now, anyway) might be for the best.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14192
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | 4
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Matt, I agree that Ellis stepping down won't instantly get an unemployed writer his job back. But the influx of writer's who would rather write something other than superheroes has displaced these creators from their jobs. Marvel was looking for something different for their heroes, they hired all the Vertigo/Indy guys to take over. In doing this they stopped giving work to many writers they had on staff. I'm all for change and understand that in business you have to change gears and try somehting new. I grow frustrated at Ellis' lack of understanding that he is making a living while others are not. When people don't appreciate what they have it angers me because there are others out there who would appreciate it. If I hate shoveling cow manure every day (I mean this literally), I'm going to look for another job. If I can't find another job that gives me the same standard of living shoveling manure gives me, I'm adult enough to understand that there are worse jobs than shoveling cow manure. I will then appreciate what my job affords me and will go quitely working. Ellis doesn't strike me as adult enough to understand that. Yes I have enjoyed some of his work, but it doesn't mean I have to like what he says and hope people realize that his insulting the medium he works in is not good business sense. I do not support his superhero work at all.
Edited by Paul Greer on 15 May 2006 at 5:28pm
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
| Comparing the man to a prostitute is over the top and insulting. |
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You're right :)
I apologise, profusely. I didn't mean, in any way shape or form, to insult prostitutes by comparing them to Warren Ellis.
I never seen one insult a paying costumer. Never saw one besmirching their own line of work to a costumers face. Never seen one writing editorials on how every worker of their own carrer and costumers of their product should politely screw themselves. And when they get remunerated, they do their job on time.
If any prostitute is reading this - My sincere apologies here lay: I was making a comparison, via hyperbole.
I never meant, in any way, shape, or form, to imply that they are - or at least the vast majority of them - as unprofessional as Warren Ellis.
Which, to be said, would be a lie.
As for Mr. Ellis, he'll get his respect when he starts respecting others, his costumers, the industry that puts food on his table, and his collegues, as well as his predecessors in the industry; many of which had more talent in a cut nail, than him in his entire career.
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 6
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That's perfectly fair, and I agree with most of what you said. I think it's more likely that if folks like Ellis stopped doing superhero books Marvel and DC would be more likely to find the next "cool" writer, though. And Ellis has moved away from doing major mainstream superhero books, instead doing stuff like Ultimate FF and Nextwave. I think someone like JMS is a much bigger problem because he doesn't seem to want to write Spider-Man, despite being the writer on Amazing, and no one in editorial seems willing to stand up to him.
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 7
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Mig Da Silva: I never seen one insult a paying costumer. Never saw one besmirching their own line of work to a costumers face. Never seen one writing editorials on how every worker of their own carrer and costumers of their product should politely screw themselves. And when they get remunerated, they do their job on time.
I read this and wonder how you managed to get so familiar with prostitutes :-)
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Darragh Greene
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 8
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In 1994 when Ellis started writing for Marvel, he could only be found
working on low-selling, niche titles like Doom 2099 or Hellstorm, both of which were cancelled while he wrote them. He only emerged as
a 'big name' after the bottom fell out of the market. We must avoid,
therefore, the cum hoc ergo propter hoc informal fallacy here. I don't
think his work is responsible for ruining superheroes. How could it be
when no one was reading it? Whatever ruined superheroes, if the genre
has been ruined, facilitated the popularity of Ellis's cynical perspective in
a shrunken market, not vice versa.
Edited by Darragh Greene on 15 May 2006 at 5:43pm
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14192
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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Matt, I agree that "Hollywood" writers are a big problem as well, as far as the direction they are taking certain heroes. But you'll be hard pressed to find any of them bad mouthing the comics. They will talk of their love of super heroes, some just fail at writing good ones. Like my not supporting Ellis' superhero work, I will not support JMS' Spider-Man. I will give both writers a read if they don't delve into territory they either don't like (Ellis) or don't write well (JMS).
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 10
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It's interesting how JMS seemed so good back when JR Jr. was drawing his book, eh? Same with Bruce Jones on Hulk. They seemed brilliant back then ;-)
Josh Whedon seemed good, though.
Edited by Trevor Giberson on 15 May 2006 at 5:47pm
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| In doing this they stopped giving work to many writers they had on staff. |
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Believe me, there are very respected writers of the late 70's submitting scripts to M*****, and get told to F'off. Or in the case of a name i won't mention, told to wait for a reply phone call, that to this day, half a decade later, still hasn't arrived.
In the meanwhile, the "F Superheroes" guy keeps writing them and pocketing the $$$.
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
| I read this and wonder how you managed to get so familiar with prostitutes :-) |
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Hmm... i ... buy ... Prostitute Weekly?
Edited by Mig Da Silva on 15 May 2006 at 5:50pm
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