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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134686
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 1
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This notion of making Nick Fury Black because the "modern" ^^***** needs to be "more racially diverse". When has Marvel not been racially diverse? SGT. FURY AND HIS HOWLING COMMANDOS integrated the US Army about five years before it actually happened. The other books were never shy about introducing heroes and villains of "other" races and ethnicities, as well as supporting cast members. It wasn't DC that gave us the Black Panther, Luke Cage, Storm, Black Goliath, the Falcon, Misty Knight, Robbie Robertson, et alAnd, on that note, if Nick Fury is to be something other than White in order to create a more "racialy diverse" environment, why is he Black? Why not Asian, Native American, Hispanic, Inuit? People of "other races" seem to be getting the short shift at ^^*****, unless they're Black. I guess to the House of M, only Black is kewl.
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 2
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In the Ultimate Universe Nick Fury is black and the Wasp is Asian. In the regular universe the new White Tiger, like the previous one, is Hispanic, Echo/Ronin is Native American, Nico from the Runaways is Asian, Dusk from the New X-Men is Arabic. These are all from the past 5 years.
Edited by Matt Linton on 30 April 2006 at 8:19am
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 3
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Most of their current readership...
I mean, all 30 thousand of them... N'yeeaw
Average major\medium book sells 50k, 20k completists, 30k might actually like it (and i'm being an optimist here)...
What are you fighting here? Crumbs? In books than then sold half a million, we're fighting for what, 20%? 10% of what sales once were?
No.
I can't even understand why they do it.
Not unless i start thinking they got so scared after the 90's that even 10% of what sales once here is a godsend.
Or that they have so little investment capital or faith in their product\reading-US-market that they can't do it.
DC comics is in an even more cowardly positition. they have investment capital behind them, what profound lack of balls do they have they can't go back to non-DM, overprint, save costs on low-print-higher-prices runs, and go back to what it once was?
They own CNN, do that and shove a newsbit on Batman and Superman, don't tell me it's not viable! They're all just a bunch of pansies who got accomodated with the crumbs an ever diminishing number of newsarama stalker trolls throw at them every month.
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Roger A Ott II
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5371
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 4
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Pedro Cruz: It isn't just Spider-Man, at this point Marvel is so FUBAR, they should blow it all up and do a reset.
The only successful way to do that, however, is to firstly remove the people currently in charge and replace them with people who understand and can produce all-ages comic books. I don't get the feeling that anyone of the current upper echelon at Marvel understands that.
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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005
Posts: 991
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 9:08am | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
| In the regular universe the new White Tiger, like the previous one, is Hispanic |
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Well yeah, but the original White Tiger was killed off in a Bendis-written issue of Daredevil in a humiliating and unheroic way.
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 6
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Lance Hill said:
"Well yeah, but the original White Tiger was killed off in a Bendis-written issue of Daredevil in a humilitating and unheroic way."
I'm sure we could all list any number of comic book deaths that we feel were wrong in some way, but that's a whole other topic.
I do think that, rather than bringing a character back from obscurity just to kill them off Bendis should have created someone for that purpose. I also tend to think that a writer should at least have a certain amount of time invested on a character before killing them, rather than killing someone else's character.
Edited by Matt Linton on 30 April 2006 at 9:32am
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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005
Posts: 991
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 7
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I'm sure we could, but my point stands that the new White Tiger isn't the best of examples of Marvel introducing a new Hispanic hero.
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 8
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If you're saying that they really just replaced an already existing Hispanic character to do it, then I can agree with that. I took your point to be that the original died a bad death, but I was probably mistaken.
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 9
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It's probably both, since White Tiger isn't even a bad example, it just simply isn't anything, There was a "Latino" hero, there's a "Latino" hero. Nothing changed beside the fact that now, whatever that thing is, it's got teen boobs and even less people care about it.
They did the same with scorpion, it's no novelty; sometimes i wonder if they just do it for the boobs in a pathetic attempt to cater to the young Manga crowd they repeatedly fail to attain.
And yes, it was a bad death, i won't enter the territory of the old was better than the new, even if it was, since it'll immideately fall into the territory of being easy prey to the relativity \ tastes brigade. At least, it was original, that's for sure.
First of all it's bad taste to kill characters other people create, particularly characters that have an history. I actually enjoyed the character when it had a run in Spectacular Spider-Man, decades ago, too bad it never got used for anything else than being killed by an up and coming indy weirdo that never wrote SuperHeroes properly, nor openly enjoys them, but yet, cashes all the payments on "writing" them.
Second of all, it's even worst taste to ressurect it a few months later. What for, gimmicks? The writer doing the killing\ressurection can't write his own stuff? If the character sucked, and that's why it got killed, why does it get ressurected to be used again? Apparently it didn't suck that much, now did it.
It's particularly entediating to see BENDIS! claiming how everything before him was trash and it's no problem if it goes away, gets raped, or misscharacterised - Uncanningly enough, he keeps reashing other people's material to write his own derivate crap off of it.
For someone who claims Comics under his decompression, talking heads, no heroes, are so much better and sophisticated, he doesn't refrain from stealing all his material from them, now does he? So we'll conclude that the material was bad, but apparently mr BENDIS! noticed that as bad as it he claims it to be, it's still a lot better than whatever he's capable of creating himself - Which up until now, give or take a few Indy forgetables, amounts to pretty much nothing.
Third of all, you sure don't do it to return it as a Character+Titties equation. It's offensive and demeaning, not just to the original creators. But to whatever "minority" they're trying to cater to, i'll assume in this case its teeny, latina, babes. Go figure. If they just manage to tap that market they'll be rich i tells ya, rich!
Jesus christ. What a trainwreck of an EIC and regime.
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Reading the pitch for it clearly underlines all of the insanities M*****'s prey to these days:
QUOTE:
“To say that having Tamora at Marvel is a coup for us is to make a pointed understatement,” says Marvel Publisher Dan Buckley. “Her name is synonymous with female-oriented fantasy literature, her works bestsellers, and her fans devoted and illuminated. That she was willing to sit down with us, listen to what we had to offer, is one of the best things that has happened on my watch at Marvel. Tamora’s vision of what fantasy and science fiction can aspire to is nothing short of ground-breaking, and what we look forward to her producing with the House of Ideas is really and truly something to look forward to.”
“Her first project will be WHITE TIGER. Tamora’s going to revisit the concept, linking it to the original Tiger and creating a new female hero with street smarts, guts, and a whole lotta obsession. I hope all Marvel fans will take a look and join us on this new adventure.” |
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And...
QUOTE:
| WHITE TIGER, as introduced in Brian Michael Bendis’ celebrated DAREDEVIL run, is getting some artistic love, as well. Legendary artist David Mack will be providing painted covers for the series as well as creating the character designs. “I had a blast redesigning the White Tiger character,” says Mack. “One of the charms of working on a Marvel project is the spirit of collaboration involved. I loved working with George Perez’ previous design, and with the suggestions of Tammy and Joe Quesada to make the covers to this series something unique and very special.” To see more of Mack’s designs and work, be sure to visit http://www.davidmack.com. |
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Yeah, George Pérez, what does he know about hero designs! Or Latins!
Mind -> Boggling.
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 11
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Oh, where to start. First of all, I'm not really sure what "doing it for the boobs" means. Second, I think you're getting Bendis confused with Warren Ellis. Ellis has said more than once that he hates superhero comics. Bendis, whether you like his work or not, has never had anything but good things to say about comics in general, and superhero comics in particular. I also don't know where "stealing ideas" comes from. If a writer builds off of existing concepts that's not stealing, it's working in a shared universe with an established continuity. And besides, I already said he should have created a new character rather than killing off and replacing an existing one, so you're just echoeing that point. And I think if you're going to criticize someone to the extent that you have, you should use the same standards that JB asks: don't mind read, and cite specific sources rather than " For someone who claims...".
As to your second post, I don't know where you get that Mack's saying Perez doesn't know about hero designs or Latins, when all Mack said was "I loved working with George Perez' previous design..".
And the first quote you posted is just a pretty standard publicity press release like you get from Marvel and DC whenever a new person comes on a book or signs an exclusive.
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 30 April 2006 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 12
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Yeah, Ellis hates superhero comics. That
reeeeeeally comes across when he takes on projects like JLA Clasified,
Nextwave, and any number of Ultimate titles. Yup, hates 'em. Wouldn't
cross the street to spit on 'em . . .
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Topic Closed)
