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Topic: When Byrne left Uncanny X-men and Cockrum took over... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 1  

Hated JB's first issue, 108.  Fell in love again with 109, probably because it featured Wolverine, had the continuity nod to Iron Fist 15, and the visual of Banshee bearing down on Weapon Alpha (following the startling visual of Moira getting injured by the ricochet off Colossus) made for a stirring finish.

As for Dave coming back, it was just so perfect I felt like it was my brilliant idea.  But no matter how much I tried, I could not will Banshee back to health.  My best friend, his sister, and I would play X-men all the time back then, and I was Wolverine, he Banshee, and she Storm.  Ah, memories.

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Ed Aycock
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 2  

I didn't start SERIOUSLY (i.e., every month) reading X-Men until about 3 or 4 years after Phoenix sacrficed herself.  To an 11 year old, that was an eternity.  But there was something about the Claremont/Byrne /Austin run that felt "exclusive" to me, like if I didn't read it in its original run, somehow I wasn't getting the full impact (plus, so many plot twists were known by then anyhow).  It didn't help that the issues were already very expesnive to obtain even in the mid-80s.  I have never felt that way about any other comics run, just those brief (too brief) few years of that run.

Edited by Ed Aycock on 21 April 2006 at 5:06pm
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Andrew Kneath
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 3  

For the record I was pretty late getting seriously into the X-Men. I was more of a Spider-Man / Avengers / FF man.

#199 (Claremont/Romita JR) was the first American issue I bought and it made enough of an impression that I stuck with it till somewhere around #320 without missing an issue.

I wasn't totally unfamilar with the characters I should add. Besides guest appearences in other titles, via British reprints I had read some of the early issues (Kirby/Heck/Steranko), some great stuff from Cockrum's first run (Eric The Red/Juggernaut and Black Tom/Magneto) and a two part story by somebody named John Byrne entitled "Days of Future Past" which really blew me away. Back then though it was too late for me to get into JB's earlier material. (No local comic shop back then.)

Somewhat amusingly (or ironically perhaps) when I did read #199 (Rachel becomes Phoenix II) I pretty much understood everything that was going on as it used story elements from the reprint of #142 which was the last X-Men issue I had read. Soon after with the help of a stack of second hand issues I was fortunate enough to stumble across, Trade Paperbacks and Classic X-Men I had pretty much read every New X-Men issue.

I stopped reading it someway into the Scott Lobdell / Joe Madureira era for all kinds of reasons. It wasn't the same after Chris left the book, all these pointless alternative reality characters had come into the book and I didn't even like the artist. I think Andy Kuberts art on the other X title might had kept me reading the X-Men titles for a bit longer but the magic had gone for me.

I have sporadically returned since mainly for Alan Davis and some of Claremonts more recent work on the title though I am not reading it currently.

 

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Kevin Webb
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 4  

Well, my first issue as a 13 year old was XMEN #144 (nice timing huh?), but I
really loved the Cockrum run (especially arcade). As I collected the entire
Byrne run and looking at it as an adult, i do feel a lot of the books
momentum was lost, but I attribute that to the loss of JBs writing, not a
failing in Cockrum's work.
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James Henry
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 5  

Joe Boster said: "I started with #167 as well."

Uncanny X-Men #167 was the first X-men issue that I bought also.  Does that make three of us on this board so far?  I recently wrote about that issue at length in my blog, so I won't go into detail here, but suffice it to say that I loved Paul Smith's run on the X-Men!

I was introduced to John Byrne's X-Men run when I bought the Phoenix Saga trade paperback that came out in 1983 (or so?).  I was absolutely amazed by that story and read the book until the pages separated from the binding.  I still have that book today and it's in pretty sad shape....

As I gradually bought back issues over time, I came to know and love the early issues of the new X-Men, by both Byrne and Cockrum.  There was definitely magic in those early issues that endures to this day.  In particular, issues 98-144 stand out in my mind as some of the best comic storytelling of all time.

By contrast, the second coming of Cockrum on the X-Men was fairly unremarkable in my mind.  As much as I enjoyed his work on new X-Men in the early days, I found the stories and art in issues 145-158 to be pretty bland.  I don't know whether that was Claremont or Cockrum of some combination thereof, but those issues lacked something.

I definitely enjoyed issues 161-164, but it's hard to tell whether that was the new and different plotline or Cockrum's improved pencils.  He had a breather for a couple of months while guest artists Bill Sienkiewicz (159) and Brent Anderson (160) filled in, so maybe that's the reason for the rebound in those latter issues.

In any case, given some of the schlock that followed the magnificent X-Men runs of Byrne, Cockrum, Smith and Romita, Jr. - all of which I bought and read - I probably shouldn't spend too much time nitpicking on this topic.....

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Ed Aycock
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Posted: 22 April 2006 at 1:33am | IP Logged | 6  

I remember issue 169 of the X-Men as being extremely well drawn.  Even though I haven't leafed through that issue in probably 20 years, I remember the detail Smith gave to things like panes of glass at the Hellfire Club that showed he was on a high then.  Maybe he had a different inker?  I had some problems with him at the time (never liked his covers and thought 172's was blah) but love him now.

Much like Byrne with Austin, JRJR's work looked its best due to the inking wizardry of the beloved Dan Green.  The texture he gave to Romita Jrs pencils was great. (I am thinking now of simple scenes like when Storm comes across the sunbathing Rogue in issue 185).  Whenever Green didn't ink JRJR, the art would suffer.

After Byrne, Claremont's plots and subplots would drag on too long for me.  Storm lost her powers, cool twist!  But then a few years later she still hadn't regained them.  Good lord.



Edited by Ed Aycock on 22 April 2006 at 1:33am
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Andrew Kneath
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Posted: 22 April 2006 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 7  

All those long running subplots (during the Romita JR. and Silvestri era) were part of the fun for me. I guess though the book had taken on (as JB would put it) the "clubhouse mentality" but being "in the club" I was (selfishly perhaps) enjoying the long ride.

I wonder how accesable the title was to new readers back then?

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 22 April 2006 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 8  

Who here would like to see another reunion of JB and Claremont? 
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 22 April 2006 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 9  

Much like Byrne with Austin, JRJR's work looked its best due to the inking wizardry of the beloved Dan Green. 

***

Terry Austin was certainly a very fine inker -- witness how some of the X-MEN covers by Cockrum, even when John Byrne was the lead artist, just came totally alive when inked by Austin -- and I am definitely a fan...

...but I don't think it's at all accurate to pigeonhole Mr. Byrne's work as being at its "best" only as inked by Austin.

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David Blot
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Posted: 22 April 2006 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 10  

Andrew wrote : All those long running subplots (during the Romita JR.
and Silvestri era) were part of the fun for me. I guess though the book
had taken on (as JB would put it) the "clubhouse mentality" but being "in
the club" I was (selfishly perhaps) enjoying the long ride.

I wonder how accesable the title was to new readers back then?

---

And I'm with you here Andrew, loved all those subplots, even the goofiest
ones. Maybe the title was hard for new readers, but at least it was THE
title, not 10 differents with 10 different writers. Wich meant much easier
to follow.

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Al Cook
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Posted: 22 April 2006 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 11  

My first issue of the X-Men was 148, which I picked up because I'd
discovered the Byrne FF, and wanted to see what the fuss was over the
title he'd just left. 148 -- Kitty, Storm, Dazzler & Spider-Woman (!?) meet
Caliban in a nightclub -- sure didn't do it for me. A search of the comic
racks in my small town produced 147, which I liked a whole lot more, but
the first one to really grab me was 150 -- Magneto got me hooked.

(It's funny, looking back on those issues, how much the lettering affected
my enjoyment of an issue. I loved Tom O.'s lettering, but found that
Janice Chiang (or Jean Simek's) really detracted from the appeal...)

I stayed with the series (and found almost all of JB's back issues in comic
shops and LOVED them) until the time around Silvestri's arrival.

I'd gotten bored of mutants galore, slaughtering mutants galore, massive
crossovers that meant I had to buy a whole bunch of books I had no
interest in, I couldn't stand the team then (Dazzler? Psylocke?
Longshot???), and really hated Silvestri's style.

Affinity for the characters only takes you as far as those characters stick
around...

Then, a few years later, I was in a comic shop and stumbled across 274.
Ka-Zar, Magneto and Fury were on the cover, and they were well-drawn!
I opened it up and was blown away -- Dinosaurs, the Savage Land,
Magneto, awesome art, great colours, I even digged the lettering.
Suddenly it seemed like the magic was back!

Too bad it didn't last long...

I don't think there's been a decent thing in an X-Book since 277. But
268-277 were a bright last hurrah, anyway. (and I stayed the second
time till well after issue 300!)

Having said all that, though, I really have a fondness for some of the early
post-JB issues.

Their escapes from Doom's castle in 147 (especially Kurt's spectacular
splash page appearance), Magneto in 150 (until he turned into a
pussy at the very end), the Brood, the Starjammers. Good stuff!

Edited by Al Cook on 22 April 2006 at 12:55pm
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José Emilio Amo
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Posted: 22 April 2006 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 12  

was what was the reaction like when Byrne left the X-men?

***************************************

I bought a few issues, I read a couple of them and I didn't like it, I stopped my collection, I didn't buy X-men again until JB's X-men hidden years.
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