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Topic: When Byrne left Uncanny X-men and Cockrum took over... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Marcus Lloyd
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 1  

I believe that my first introduction to the X-Men was issue #139 bought off a spinner rack at the local Quick Stop.  I had no idea who these characters were, and I had never given any attention to the writers and artists on any given book, but this book really grabbed my attention.  I instantly convinced my parents to get me a subscription and a relative who had been collecting the title for some time began to introduce me to earlier issues (Byrne issues only).  I remember checking the mailbox nearly everyday after school looking for that brown wrapper.  When that first Cockrum issue arrived, I remember being really disappointed.  Every issue that came out after that, I continued hoping that the next one would have the Byrne/Austin team back on the book.   When my best friend brought over some books he had just purchased, I spotted those familiar names on an issue of Fantastic Four.  Right then I knew that the X-Men would never return to the greatness I had been briefly exposed to.

 

I did enjoy the book for several more years with the various creative teams, but nothing compares to Mr. Byrne’s talent on these characters.   I can also say the same thing for the Fantastic Four.  I quickly picked up the FF knowing that I could continue to get some great art and stories with that title.

 

It took me several years to appreciate Mr. Cockrum’s art, and to realize that he had an earlier run on the X-Men.  His work is also some of the best to ever fill the pages of that book.   I’m glad I had the opportunity to meet him at the Hero’s Con last year and tell him how much I have enjoyed his work over the years. 

Too bad I’ve missed those chances with Mr. Byrne since conventions are now off his “to do” list, but I am grateful that I can tell him how much I enjoy his work here on the Forum.

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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 2  

My first concious introduction to the All New X-Men was with #94 (Giant-Sized X-Men was not printed), that was reprinted here in Mexico, in spanish. That magazine's run finished with the end of Dark Phoenix Saga (all taken from Classic X-Men). Then when i got the chance to get American material, the "Essentials" were a must have. I must say that Giant-Sized X-Men was excellent.

When Mr. Byrne left, it became clear my suspicious. Claremont's quality of work depends of the input that he receives from the artist.

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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 3  

I liked Dave Cockrum's second run on the title. Paul Smith was a great follow up, and I felt the stories vastly improved over the time period. Unfortunately, much as I like JRJr. artwork, the stories it had to go along with were below par, in my opinion. I gave up on X-Men at issue 200, and then came back again for "The Fall of the Mutants" issues. I liked Marc Silvestri's art, and the writing seemed to have got better so I stuck around again for another couple of years until the Siege Perilous storyline.

After that I began to feel the title was losing steam or maybe Chris Claremont needed a bit of a sabbatical.

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James C. Taylor
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 4  

 Juan Jose Colin Arciniega wrote:
When Mr. Byrne left, it [confirmed] my [suspicions:] Claremont's quality of work depends of the input that he receives from the artist.

At the time, I couldn't figure out what had changed, but there was just something missing when JB left. Dave Cockrum is a great artist, but something post JB just seemed flat.
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Jason Carpenter
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 5  

I did not like Cockum's second run, the artwork was darkr than his previous work and reminded me of the early X-men work he did before he really cleaned it up, though I think now it may have been an issue with the inker because Futurians has none of the weaknesses of the art in his early first run or the second run. I always thought of Dave as the definitive idea man for the X-Men with Byrne giving us the glue that held those pieces together.

Jason

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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 6  

At the time, I couldn't figure out what had changed, but there was just something missing when JB left. Dave Cockrum is a great artist, but something post JB just seemed flat.

****

The Claremont/Byrne wars of legend are much exagerated, of course, but it is true that Chris and I used to butt heads a lot more often than Chris and Dave did. And, as we all know, it's friction that generates heat.

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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 7  

Now...if George Perez, after doing that beautiful annual of X-Men, were the artist of X-Men leaving Mr.Byrne...history whould have been different....
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 8  

The total package was their Claremont/Byrne/Austin... That created a cohesive consistant product that I think was something that was truelly special... I don't think the run would have been as successful without all three of those pieces in place. X-men 110 was a good example...no Terry Austin and that issue "seemed" to not be up to the same level.... I feel that Terry was a HUGE part of the reason that the art on that run is held in such high esteem....

I also think that Janson deserves alot for Miller's Daredevil run as well.....He really added alot to the final product as Terry did
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 9  

What I appreciated when first reading the transition from Claremont/Cockrum #1 to Claremont/Byrne was the attempt to preserve a consistency of character, and yet a willingness to open them up, particularly to explore their respective natures deeply under stress. The Proteus tale of 127-128 was especially fine in that regard, inter alia.

But it seems that during Claremont/Cockrum #1, Chris Claremont defined the characters rather broadly, and it was only with the advent of John Byrne that detailed refinements were added.

I'm not sure if Mr. Byrne was responsible for that and if so to what degree -- and perhaps he might say so -- but I do think that after his departure the characters again clearly began to be shown too broadly, and without the introspection that makes the Claremont/Byrne run a pleasure to re-visit a quarter of a century (and more) later.

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Joe Boster
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 10  

I started with #167 as well. Having read Iron Man and Avengers that month and having an oportuniy to get a 3rd book. I read a lot of the second cockrum run beofre I read a lot of the JB stuff beacuse the back issues were cheaper when I went for my weekly trip to the comic store in downtown Bakersfield. Was  not until 86 that I had my first JB X-Men. #129 Which JB signed for me in San Diego one year. Along with #108 that I gave to a friend.

Edit: I disliked JRJR 1st run and loved the fill in artists like Adams and Leodardi. I still buy it today. Sadly.


Edited by Joe Boster on 21 April 2006 at 12:34pm
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Mike Baswell
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 11  

I agree with Eric but would add Wein, Orzche(I can't spell it right, so I'm not
gonna try), and Stern. then Salicrup to a good deal of that equation. It was
just refreshing to see the same names on the masthead basically month
after month.
To me, Glynis Wein and what she did as a colorist on that book are not to be
equalled. Couple that with a traditional letterer and editors that knew what
they were doing; that's the reason X-Men 108-143 will never be surpassed
as the definative run on that book, IMO. I know there were fill-ins
occasionally at both colorist and letterer, but overall, that whole core team
of creators is what made the book. Make no mistake Claremont/Byrne/
Austin were the stars, but they had a pretty solid backing band as it were.



Edited by Mike Baswell on 21 April 2006 at 12:07pm
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Jason Powell
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 12  

I just finished a massive re-reading of the entire
Claremont run from '76 to '91 (inclusive of New
Mutants and Excalibur, and all the Wolverine series
and annuals and specials, etc.).

I agree with Rob, I think Chris Claremont deserves a
lot of credit for keeping the X-Men going as long as
he did, and he did have an inimitable style. ("Weird," I
think you called it, Rob? :))

I think I'm the roughly the same age as Rob, so like
him I was getting into Uncanny and seeing his work
with Silvestri and simultaneously buying Classic
X-Men to experience the Claremont/Byrne/Austin
magic.

For a kid coming into the franchise at that time, it had
this feeling of enormous breadth and complexity --
there was this massive mythology branded "X-Men"
and I know it was really attractive to me as a
9-year-old. (For all I know there were as many or
more 9-year-olds who were repelled as there were
attracted, but speaking for myself it just seemed
massively cool, and the more issues I read the more
I *wanted* to read.)

Re: Cockrum's second run. I agree, having read
them all in sequence there seems to be a notable
dip in quality there; it's hard to deny that the
"sequelitis" factor was problematic. You had X-Men
vs. Hellfire Club Round 2, X-Men vs. Arcade Round 2,
etc. ... Even the Brood saga read like a sequel to
Byrne/Claremont's final story, "Demon." ("Demon"
was obviously inspired by "Alien." The Brood clearly
were as well.)

There were still some cool moments, though. "Kitty's
Fairy Tale" is a lot of fun (albeit yet another rehash of
Dark Phoenix). The issue that I *really* love from that
era, though, is issue 161: the ret-con issue that
showed how Professor X and Magneto first met. I
argued with someone on this board in the past over
the "appropriateness" of the ret-con, given that a year
earlier Professor X had been saying that Magneto's
origin was "uknown," with no reference to having met
him before X-Men #1. But I still think it's brilliant.

When I read that issue now, I find it just incredibly
powerful. Great script, great art, great "backing band"
(nice one, Mike B!). Wonderful characterization of the
two lead characters, solid superhero action --
everything one could want from a superhero comic,
while also adding a new layer of meaning to the
whole X-Men/Magneto dynamic. Beautiful!



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