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Topic: When Byrne left Uncanny X-men and Cockrum took over... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Mietus
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 1  

I dropped the book sometime in the middle of the JRjr run, primarily
because the storyline had gotten so ridiculously convoluted and relied so
much on alternate realities (I hated the introduction of Rachel Summers
so, so much) that I just couldn't stomach it anymore, art notwithstanding.
It just seemed so...l dunno, masturbatory on the part of Chris Claremont
that I just couldn't care about any of the characters that, not two years
before, I'd grown to really like. But that was also the height of the Secret
Wars era, where I'd gotten to the point where the only Marvel titles I really
enjoyed were FF, Avengers and Alpha Flight -- and JB would leave AF
pretty shortly after that as well, as I recall.

Basically, I pretty much dropped all my Marvel titles after JB left FF and
the Hulk, and wouldn't pick any up again until JB did She-Hulk and WCA.

[edited. I always spot the typos after I push "Post Reply."]

Edited by John Mietus on 21 April 2006 at 6:19am
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Mike Sawin
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 2  

At the risk of sounding like a suck-up, I have to say that I've always preferred Byrne's work over Cockrum's.  I liked much of Cockrums' stuff, particularly the "look" of the "New" X-men. 

But Byrne's work has always felt more "fluid" to me, like I was reading a story and looking at a "still" or single frame of a film of that story.  I always felt as if I knew where they were and what the characters were doing before and after that frame. 

Cockrum's work is just fine, but it always feels to me as if the characters are posed for a snapshot, as opposed to being captured in the act of what the story was about.  

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Mary Ward
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 3  

Steven Myers said : "Cockrum's the best brcause he created the all-time best non-original X-Man mutant ever: Nightcrawler!!  He's so much cooler than any hot-headed Canadian!!"

Steve...I love you! You have just gained 10000 points in my esteem rating! Bamf and a smooch for you, mein Freund!

See, for me, after Cockrum and Byrne, Paul Smith was too different in style, and I dropped the book around then...John Romita JR. had a short run around 176 right? It was good then again, but I think Smith came back and I stopped collecting it.

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Andrew Kneath
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 6:59am | IP Logged | 4  

 John Mietus wrote:
I dropped the book sometime in the middle of the JRjr run, primarily because the storyline had gotten so ridiculously convoluted and relied so much on alternate realities

It's a given that you didn't pick the book up again when all that Cable and Bishop stuff started going down then? Believe me the alternate reality stuff got a lot worse then and in fairness I don't think Claremont was to blame for all that.

 

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John Mietus
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 5  

Right, Andrew -- and I'm really, really glad I missed all that. Someone tried
to tell me about it and about halfway through his explanation I had to stop
him and point out the glassy-eyed expression on my face was not indicative
of interest.
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Brett C. Flechaus
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 6  

I have to echo the comments of Robert White and Jason Czeskleba in
regards to the fact that A) The sales bump on the Paul Smith run had
much more to do with what Cockrum/Clairemont & Byrne built, than
what Paul Smith did.  Paul Smith never went on & used this supposed
sales clout to blow up the sales on any other book in his carreer.  He's a
nice artist, but he benefitted more from the X-men  than the X-men
benefitted from him.  Right place at the right time.  B) As for the 2nd
Cockrum/( Rubenstein?) run, it was good, but it was a BIG step down from
JB/Austin.   I was so happy to see Iceman,Banshee,  Havok & Polaris
return but the stories just lacked a certain zip.  In retrospect, I have to say
that JB's co-plotting must've been a bigger  factor than I originally thought.

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 7  

I started reading X-Men ( and pretty much comics, in general*) in the middle of Paul Smith's run. Love, love, love that run. It also introduced me to JB's run via back issues and when I noticed this was the guy that drew Iron Fist 15 ( I had this issue for a while from a flea market) my love for all art by Byrne was born.

I really liked JRjr's term on the title, as well. I stopped shortly after he left. I do agree with John M, tho, concerning stories getting pretty wacky towards the end of it, tho. There are some I like, but there are some that are just plain bad.

Never really have gotten into Cockrum's art. I've read all the X-Men issues he did, but I've never really liked him as an artist. I do think he can design some pretty cool costumes, tho.



Edited by Brian Miller on 21 April 2006 at 7:27am
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Brett C. Flechaus
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 8  

Also, I hated the alien brood stuff and the Moorlocks & the Storm Mowhak
business from the Paul Smith issues, so for me, the art was pretty but the
subject matter was uninteresting.  As the stories commenced I became
less & less interested ( as I think John Mietus said above ).  I have to lay
the blame on Claremont for that.  I think I bowed out some time around the
late 190's/early 200's and avoided the X-universe until the Morrison/Quitely
stuff from a few years back.  ( Actually I did buy some early New Mutants
and X-Factor but I'm not sure when those issues occurred as compared to
the main title? )
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Jon Juzan
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 9  

I really wouldn't be surprised if Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends added to the bump in Paul Smith's X-Men.  I had been dying to find a comic with Iceman.  I knew he was an X-Man and so I looked at an X-Men issue (#156) at the grocery store.  I found it convoluted and impenetrable...and with no sign of Iceman but a ton of other characters that looked unappealing. 

Less than a year later the X-Men appeared on the show...and I absolutely LOVED them: Wolverine, Angel, Storm & Cyclops.  I looked for the X-Men again and found #167.  It looked and felt like those characters in the cartoon...and I was offically hooked.  I enjoyed X-Men comics until shortly after #200.

No doubt in my mind, the legacy of the JB stories is what caused the gradual build up in sales after he left.  But with as many people that got into comic books because of Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, I have to think that the X-Men got a good piece of that.
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 10  


 QUOTE:

But to me, the area where there was really a notable decline after JB's departure, and the area that disappointed me the most, was the scripts.  At the time I knew JB had been co-plotter but I was not aware just how large his role had been in his final year or so on the book.  I'd say I definitely missed JB the writer more than JB the artist when he left.

I came to the same conclusion you did. If there were no creedits box, you would think there was a brand new writer working on the book. I do think eventually the book got back to form during the Brood issues.

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James C. Taylor
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 11  

There may not have been a net loss in sales but when JB left, so did I, so there was at least one sale lost.
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 21 April 2006 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 12  

Probably the #1 reason I started reading X-men was because of Wolverine, Wolverine, Wolverine.



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 21 April 2006 at 7:44am
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