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Topic: When Byrne left Uncanny X-men and Cockrum took over... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Pablo Chiste
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | 1  

My public library has been revamped with a pretty impressive graphic novel/comic book section. I've been reading the Essential X-men and was shocked to discover that right after Byrne left the title with issue 145 (?) the quality of the art and stories went down so low. All of the subtle characterizations and interesting plots disappeared.

When I was a kid during the Silvestri/Jim Lee runs I remembered Chris Claremont being a pretty solid writer, but I now might have to reevaluate my opinion. So my question to the longtime readers, was what was the reaction like when Byrne left the X-men? Did people keep away from the comic in droves once it became a generic sub-standard superhero comic again or was there still an excitement around the characters? 

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Jay Matthews
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 2  

I was in the sixth grade.  I think we saw something shiny and got distracted.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 3  

There was no loss in sales when Dave came back. In fact, the book continued climbing, slow but sure, until Paul Smith came aboard. Then the sales exploded and the whole X-Madness was truly born.
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Teod Tomlinson
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:08pm | IP Logged | 4  

I was crushed as the coolest fiction in my life completely changed. I find
myself more of a fan of Cockrum's art now, however at the time I did not
like his work at all. I held on for a year then stopped buying the comic
altogether.
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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 5  

I thought it sucked, but I couldn't leave the X-Men. It was imprinted in my
brain that they were the greatest thing ever. I have a theory that the Dark
Phoenix Saga generated some sort of inertia, propelling the X-Men for some
ten years.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 6  

As a little kid in the 70s, Claremont-Cockrum #1 didn't draw me in at all. But John Byrne's contemporary non-X-Men work snagged me immediately, particularly with Marvel Team-Up, most especially Spider-Man & Red Sonja (she has never been drawn better), and Spider-Man & Luke Cage (fighting a fire, just a fire, and nothing more -- and it's still a comic whose images reverberate almost 30 years later).

In re Claremont-Cockrum #2, it wasn't the artwork so much that drove me away but the stories and in particular the details of the writing. Chris Claremont began repeating himself ad nauseam in so many little ways, it began to get painful. Plus, I simply got sick of his wrongheaded focus on Storm. After he had Dracula, Dr. Doom, and Magneto in quick succession all basically be "charmed" by her into defeat whereas the entire team had been already beaten hands-down, well, I just couldn't take it.

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Jay Matthews
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 7  


 QUOTE:
I have a theory that the Dark
Phoenix Saga generated some sort of inertia, propelling the X-Men for some
ten years.


Could be, but to me it felt like Wolverine was the driver.  For several reasons perhaps (Days of Future Past, brown costume, Miller miniseries) it seemed at the time like Wolverine was the zeitgeist, and the other appealing aspects of X-Men certainly didn't hurt.

All of the sudden in the early 1980's, the American culture converged on the "Dirty Harry" archetype.  The most popular heroes were the ones that you weren't sure where they were coming from.


Edited by Jay Matthews on 20 April 2006 at 7:36pm
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Troy Nunis
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 8  

I remember seeing a cartoon at the time (in general) with a fanboy declairing in sequince "What? Cockcrum is leaving the X-Men? that's it, i'm selling my collection!" followed by "What? Byrne is leaving the X-Men? that's it, i'm selling my collection!"

Personally - i was underwhelmed by Cockrum's 2nd stint, while still a masterful designer, there was a thickness (and abundance) to the linework which made it less appealing than the cleaness of his prior stint.  Not sure if this was due to Mr. Cockrum trying something differant, or the inker  - but i was on the verge of dropping the  book but Paul Smith came along just in time.

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Robert White
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 9  


 QUOTE:
There was no loss in sales when Dave came back. In fact, the book continued climbing, slow but sure, until Paul Smith came aboard. Then the sales exploded and the whole X-Madness was truly born.


Perhaps TECHNICALLY...but we all know the meat of "Classic X-Men" is the stuff (Dark Phoenix Saga, Days of Future Past)during JB's time on the title. I've always attributed this to word of mouth taking time to get around and the growth of the industry that eventually reached its "zenith" in the mid-80's (Technically the books sold the best during the early 90's speculator boom, but I'm factoring in sales + integrity/quality here.)

I have always loved Paul Smith's art (particularly his Doctor Strange,wow) but I seriously doubt he was ever as big a draw as JB was during his X-Men/FF/Superman years.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 10  

I remember feeling some disappointment when I read the first few non-Byrne issues.

I've always been a huge Cockrum fan, but it seems like he must be a hard guy to ink because the stuff he inked himself (GS X-Men #1, X-Men #100, many of the covers during his first X-Men stint) always struck me as head and shoulders above the stuff inked by others.  When JB left I was thrilled to hear they'd tapped Dave as the replacement (I'd been reading the book regularly since #101 and had fond memories of his stuff).  But when I saw #145 and subsequent issues it seemed to me Dave was not being best-served by the inkers he was teamed with.  I found myself wishing they'd brought back Dan Green or maybe Bob McLeod or convinced Terry Austin to stay on (that would have been interesting indeed, based on the few X-covers they did together).  Ultimately I did really like Dave's second tenure but the inking held it back a bit IMO.

But to me, the area where there was really a notable decline after JB's departure, and the area that disappointed me the most, was the scripts.  At the time I knew JB had been co-plotter but I was not aware just how large his role had been in his final year or so on the book.  I'd say I definitely missed JB the writer more than JB the artist when he left.  (This was the point when I began to notice that even though I considered Chris Claremont one of my favorite writers, I only really loved the stuff he wrote in collaboration with JB).  After that to a large degree it was Dave's art that kept me around on X-Men and when he left the second time so did I.

Interesting... I just looked at comics.org, and according to them Dave was only doing breakdowns, not full pencils, during his second stint on the book.  I don't know if that's true, but if it is it would partially explain why the finished result was not as much to my liking as some of Dave's other work.



Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 20 April 2006 at 8:34pm
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James Wright
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 11  

I preferred Byrne to Cockrum (after Byrne), but I did enjoy Smith(but less than Byrne).
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 20 April 2006 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 12  

I was one the those guys that enjoyed Cockrum's second run on Uncanny over his first run. #150 is still one of my all time favorite covers. That Paul Smith run wasn't so shabby either. Would I have prefered JB to stay on the book? At the time yes. But after getting hooked by his FF in a few months I  couldn't have cared less he wasn't doing X-Men.
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