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Topic: Cassie Sandsmark, Porn Queen (Aging, Again) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Jason Barnett
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 1  

I'll admit, I didn't much care for her at first, but she grew on me. IMO, she
just seems like a generic high school girl today. Can anyone tell me five
differences between Cassie's personality and Stargirl/Courtney
Whitmore's? And please tell me, what happened to the spunk?

******

Spunk becomes attitude in older teens.  She told off Robin for his trip around the world with Batman in a recent Titans in a way that didn't seem excessively angst filled to me.

I can't list five differences between Cassie and Stargirl because I don't know much of the character, but I can think of a few.  Stargirl seems to be from a relaitively tight-knit if blended family.  She's a junior member of the team who others try to help out with studying or whatever.  Cassie didn't even know her father, till he turned out to be Zeus, and as a former leader of Young Justice I'd say the Teen Titans think of her as senior member of the team.  See Cyborg going after her first when trying to get them back together.

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Darren De Vouge
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 2  

Richard Patton wrote:
she (Cassie) just seems like a generic high school girl today

******************

...on the O.C. TV show, perhaps.
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Richard Patton
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 3  

I can't list five differences between Cassie and Stargirl because I don't
know much of the character, but I can think of a few. Stargirl seems to be
from a relaitively tight-knit if blended family. She's a junior member of
the team who others try to help out with studying or whatever. Cassie
didn't even know her father, till he turned out to be Zeus, and as a former
leader of Young Justice I'd say the Teen Titans think of her as senior
member of the team. See Cyborg going after her first when trying to get
them back together.

***

Thanks, Jason, but I'm looking for differences in their personalities-
traits, beliefs, opinions and the like. Who they are. Not just how their
circumstances differ, but how, if they are in fact different personas, those
differences show in the depictions of these girls and how they relate to
their world.

Prove to me they are not currently written as the same generi-ficto-teen
stuffed into two identities.

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Jason Barnett
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 4  

Prove to me they are not currently written as the same generi-ficto-teen
stuffed into two identities.
*****

 

Well, Stargirl is forward thinking.  She's looking to college and learning to drive.  Cassie is focusing back on Superboy's death and the Titans falling apart.  When Courtney lost her family she immediately focused on getting them back.  But that was an abnormal situation.

Cassie is angrier than Courtney.  The JSA hadn't been functioning as closely since Crisis.  She suggests they get back together more often, while Cassie is hostile to the Titans.

Courtney likes nice guys(Captain Marvel), while Cassie like attitude(Superboy)

Courtney is to content to learn from the best, working with the JSA, while Cassie is more comfortable with peers and being a key part of the group.

Courtney is apparently happy being a superhero.  Cassie has to be superhuman, see her deal with Aries as her powers faded, as opposed to maybe digging up her old bag of tricks.  THough I don't know if that's actually possible.

Do people agree with these assessments?  Or am I way off on either one?



Edited by Jason Barnett on 13 May 2006 at 7:33pm
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Gregg Halecki
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 5  

I think that you nailed both those girls pretty well.
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Richard Patton
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 6  


< Way to step up, Jason! Now we're cookin'! >

Well, Stargirl is forward thinking. She's looking to college and learning to
drive. Cassie is focusing back on Superboy's death and the Titans falling
apart. When Courtney lost her family she immediately focused on getting
them back. But that was an abnormal situation.

< I guess some of this hedges on the situational. In your opinion, if they
were in each other's boots, how would the reactions differ? >

Cassie is angrier than Courtney. The JSA hadn't been functioning as
closely since Crisis. She suggests they get back together more often,
while Cassie is hostile to the Titans.

< More situational responses maybe. Is Cassie angry even when nothing
is going wrong? I want to know who they are in their everyday lives. >

Courtney likes nice guys(Captain Marvel), while Cassie like
attitude(Superboy)

< Perfect. This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted. Have we seen either
of them linked with guys other than the two you mention? >

Courtney is to content to learn from the best, working with the JSA, while
Cassie is more comfortable with peers and being a key part of the group.

< This is interesting stuff. Have they expressed these thoughts
themselves? >

Courtney is apparently happy being a superhero. Cassie has to be
superhuman, see her deal with Aries as her powers faded, as opposed to
maybe digging up her old bag of tricks. THough I don't know if that's
actually possible.

< Not sure what all this means. I'd appreciate clarification here. Are you
saying Cassie is a reluctant superhero? Thank you for the well considered
response. >

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Jason Barnett
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 7  

Well, Stargirl is forward thinking. She's looking to college and learning to
drive. Cassie is focusing back on Superboy's death and the Titans falling
apart. When Courtney lost her family she immediately focused on getting
them back. But that was an abnormal situation.

< I guess some of this hedges on the situational. In your opinion, if they
were in each other's boots, how would the reactions differ? >

Hard to say really.  I suppose Courtney might be mor elike Robin who is trying to reclone Superboy.  I do know this isn't just a one time situation for Cassie though.  When Arrowette retired she seemed to be the one who had the hardest time letting go.

*****

Cassie is angrier than Courtney. The JSA hadn't been functioning as
closely since Crisis. She suggests they get back together more often,
while Cassie is hostile to the Titans.

< More situational responses maybe. Is Cassie angry even when nothing
is going wrong? I want to know who they are in their everyday lives. >

I don't really know enough about them to judge that.  Though from this personality trait I'd guess Cassie is quicker to anger.  For example during one of the Infinite Crisis tie-ins she held a classmate to the ceiling for insulting Wonder Woman after the Maxwell Lord footage was aired.

*****

Courtney likes nice guys(Captain Marvel), while Cassie like
attitude(Superboy)

< Perfect. This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted. Have we seen either
of them linked with guys other than the two you mention? >

Not sure about that.

*****

Courtney is to content to learn from the best, working with the JSA, while
Cassie is more comfortable with peers and being a key part of the group.

< This is interesting stuff. Have they expressed these thoughts
themselves?

I believe she turned down membership in Young Justice where she'd obviously be considered an equal to remain with the JSA where even if they say she is their ages versus hers would lead them to try to protect her.

******

Courtney is apparently happy being a superhero. Cassie has to be
superhuman, see her deal with Aries as her powers faded, as opposed to
maybe digging up her old bag of tricks. THough I don't know if that's
actually possible.

< Not sure what all this means. I'd appreciate clarification here. Are you
saying Cassie is a reluctant superhero? Thank you for the well considered
response. >

Actually just the opposite, Cassie is almost an overeager superhero.  Courtney is content on putting on a belt and picking up a control rod and letting that be her powers.  Cassie had something similar with her original costume and she asked for powers of her own.  She wants them to be part of her.  Take them out of costume Courtney is an ordinary human, Cassie isn't.

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Troy Nunis
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 8  

>>>Courtney likes nice guys(Captain Marvel), while Cassie like
attitude(Superboy)

< Perfect. This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted. Have we seen either
of them linked with guys other than the two you mention? >

Not sure about that.<<<

Courtney initially seemed to be moving towards Atom-Smasher, when he was a nice guy -- even one alternate future showed that they did wind up together - but when Atom-Smasher changed and became more ruthless, she had great concern for him, she quickly seemed to lose That sort of interest in him. 

(Just as a side note, Courtney was based on Geoff John's late sister, while i don't think he's used any particuarly model on his approach to Cassie, and of course has had to take what Young Justice and the Wonder Woman title left him)

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Richard Patton
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Posted: 13 May 2006 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 9  

Well, Stargirl is forward thinking. She's looking to college and learning to
drive. Cassie is focusing back on Superboy's death and the Titans falling
apart. When Courtney lost her family she immediately focused on getting
them back. But that was an abnormal situation.

< I guess some of this hedges on the situational. In your opinion, if they
were in each other's boots, how would the reactions differ? >

Hard to say really. I suppose Courtney might be mor elike Robin who is
trying to reclone Superboy. I do know this isn't just a one time situation
for Cassie though. When Arrowette retired she seemed to be the one who
had the hardest time letting go.

< This is the factor that bothers me. (If I may use you as an example.)
That even after all these years of appearances, an obviously well read and
observant consumer finds it hard to say how these girls would react to a
given situation. I call this writer failure. This makes me think these girls
are still lacking in distinctive personalities. And this is where I see them
erode as characters, to often becoming just another body in a costume...
and hence the generi-teen. We shouldn't have to be guessing what they
might do. We should know by now. Right or wrong, we should have a
strong feeling of what they might do. It's the writer's job. How many
pages do they need? I have to question the quality of characterization in
the books these girls have appeared in. >


*****


Cassie is angrier than Courtney. The JSA hadn't been functioning as
closely since Crisis. She suggests they get back together more often,
while Cassie is hostile to the Titans.

< More situational responses maybe. Is Cassie angry even when nothing
is going wrong? I want to know who they are in their everyday lives. >

I don't really know enough about them to judge that. Though from this
personality trait I'd guess Cassie is quicker to anger. For example during
one of the Infinite Crisis tie-ins she held a classmate to the ceiling for
insulting Wonder Woman after the Maxwell Lord footage was aired.

< And I can't fault you for not knowing. I don't either! I say it's because
the writers have failed us. We have two heroines we cannot readily
quantify after years of stories. I like that example of her temper, but I
look at it this way -- In a comic, the hero's battle actions are reactive.
Character development needs a proactive component, and I can't help but
see it to be lacking for these two. >


*****


Courtney likes nice guys(Captain Marvel), while Cassie like
attitude(Superboy)

< Perfect. This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted. Have we seen either
of them linked with guys other than the two you mention? >

Not sure about that.

< To the best of my knowledge, these two guys have held unique roles in
each girl's life. With only one example, I wonder if it may be premature to
peg their types. (Unless they've made some pronouncement?) In any
event, I'll still view them as accurate traits for each, respectively. I feel as
if I'm grabing for scraps at this point. >


*****


Courtney is to content to learn from the best, working with the JSA, while
Cassie is more comfortable with peers and being a key part of the group.

< This is interesting stuff. Have they expressed these thoughts
themselves? >

I believe she turned down membership in Young Justice where she'd
obviously be considered an equal to remain with the JSA where even if
they say she is their ages versus hers would lead them to try to protect
her.

< Excellent. Courtney makes a decision and we get to know why. We at
last have something to go on. This action tells me more than any other I
know of her taking. IMO, this is the kind of thing we should be getting
monthly. >


******


Courtney is apparently happy being a superhero. Cassie has to be
superhuman, see her deal with Aries as her powers faded, as opposed to
maybe digging up her old bag of tricks. THough I don't know if that's
actually possible.

< Not sure what all this means. I'd appreciate clarification here. Are you
saying Cassie is a reluctant superhero? Thank you for the well considered
response. >

Actually just the opposite, Cassie is almost an overeager superhero.
Courtney is content on putting on a belt and picking up a control rod and
letting that be her powers. Cassie had something similar with her original
costume and she asked for powers of her own. She wants them to be
part of her. Take them out of costume Courtney is an ordinary human,
Cassie isn't.

< I think you're spot on with Cassie being overeager. I want to know why
she is. What are Cassie's basic motivations to continue being a hero? (I
already know why she started because Mr. Byrne did his job right.) I really
don't know a clear answer, and that I find peculiar. I want to see how the
characters around her understand why she is as she is. I haven't gotten
this. For the other... Motivation is the one area I find Courtney has had
due attention given her. I like her origin. >

Edited by Richard Patton on 14 May 2006 at 12:59am
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Jason Barnett
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Posted: 14 May 2006 at 5:10am | IP Logged | 10  

< And I can't fault you for not knowing. I don't either! I say it's because
the writers have failed us. We have two heroines we cannot readily
quantify after years of stories. I like that example of her temper, but I
look at it this way -- In a comic, the hero's battle actions are reactive.
Character development needs a proactive component, and I can't help but
see it to be lacking for these two. >

Actually I can't because I'm only an occasional JSA reader.  I've read her in the Sins of Youth storyline, her guest appearence in Young Justice, the time travel Per Degaton story, and in the current JSA arc.

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Joe Mayer
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Posted: 14 May 2006 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 11  

3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction
*****

Oh, you mean a television commercial!
:)

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Richard Patton
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Posted: 14 May 2006 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 12  

Actually I can't because I'm only an occasional JSA reader. I've read her in
the Sins of Youth storyline, her guest appearence in Young Justice, the
time travel Per Degaton story, and in the current JSA arc.

***

I understand. That you know all you do about her makes me think you've
seen a sufficient number of appearances. Myself, I was a regular JSA
reader for the first 50 issues or so. Between the two of us, I still think we
should have an easier idea of what makes her work.

I think she has great potential. I'm looking forward to someone taking the
time to better fill out her character... someday.
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