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James Steffes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 18
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 1
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Mr. Byrne,
Many "fans" like to blame Jim Shooter for just about everything that went wrong with Marvel during his stint as editor (1978-87). Looking back, do you feel that Jim ultimately led Marvel in the wrong direction (direct market, creator royalties, etc.)? Also, if you could somehow go back in time, what editorial decision of his would you change (if you could only change one)?
Thanks
Edited by James Steffes on 08 February 2006 at 9:24am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133563
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 2
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Shooter came along just when Marvel needed him -- but he stayed too long. Having fixed just about everything that was wrong, he could not stop "fixing". Around the time I left to do Superman, I said that I thought Shooter and Dick Giordano should trade jobs -- it was DC that needed fixing then -- and do so about every 5 years or so. Shooter had put Marvel into a place where all that was needed was a kindly father figure at the helm -- and that was not Shooter!Gearing up my time machine? Make SECRET WARS never happen! That was when the trouble really kicked into high gear.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31287
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 3
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JB, did you think the Secret Wars story was simply a bad idea or the execution of it was wrong? I know you didn't like having to shoe-horn in stuff Shooter wanted you to do, but I was wondering if there was anything more to it.
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 4
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<<Gearing up my time machine? Make SECRET WARS never happen! That
was when the trouble really kicked into high gear.>>
Here here!
SECRET WARS was really the turning point, the moment where even I, a
14-year-old kid with no "behind the scenes" knowledge of Marvel or the
industry as a whole, started to take notice that all was not right at the ol'
House of Ideas after what had been a long, wonderful stretch of creativity
and innovation.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 5
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Marvel was awesome in the years leading up to Secret Wars.
Maybe Jim Shooter, the fixer, needs to be at Marvel now.
Edited by Thomas Woods on 08 February 2006 at 10:03am
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Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 6
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SECRET WARS is what brought me into the Marvel Universe as a whole. Beofre that, all it was for me was Spidey.
Without SECRET WARS, there is a good chance I would not have really gotten into comics. It made me fall in love with the Marvel Universe. Also, it was a hecukva lot of FUN and not particularly confusing! Could use more fun comics today.
Edited by Rob Hewitt on 08 February 2006 at 10:04am
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James C. Taylor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4705
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 7
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But at what cost did we bring Rob Hewitt in? Rob's a great guy and all, but was he worth it?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133563
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 8
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Shooter used to say that Marvel (for which, read "Jim Shooter") would rather publish a really good book that got low sales -- he'd site Roger Stern's run on DOCTOR STRANGE -- than a POS that sold thru the roof.Unfortunately, he went on to produce one of the biggest PsOS in the history of Marvel, and garner some of the biggest sales the company had seen in a decade or so --- and so he had to convince himself that SW was a huge success not merely because it was jammed full of just about every character Marvel had, but because it was >>BRILLIANT<<. After SW started to some out, Shooter's "notes" to the editors, scribbled in the margins of the printer's make-ready copies, became more and more "See SECRET WARS #(whatever) for how to do this right!" Not only would he usually not specify what "this" was, but, seriously, there was nobody up at Marvel then who would have looked at SECRET WARS to find out how to do anything "right".
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 9
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Maybe Jim Shooter, the fixer, needs to be at Marvel
now.
****
If I can use the time machine to go pick up the Jim
Shooter of, say, 1975, I agree.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31287
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 10
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I'm amazed he was able to find an artist the could meet the challenge of his genius writing abilities.
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Chuck Wells
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1244
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 11
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I agree with JB about Secret Wars being a turning point for the worse at the House of Ideas, but since key X-Men characters (Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Prof. X & Rogue) played a part in Secret Wars, I searched to see if there was some non-Secret Wars title that occurred earlier that also may have helped tip the scale.
The New Mutants title debuted in March 1983, slightly more than a year earlier than Secret Wars (May 1984). New Mutants spun off from the same titled graphic novel of 1982 and began a deluge of X-related titles that has never slowed, the biggest fallout from M*****'s endless stable of X-books is the splitting up of the team across so many different comics and the introduction of dozens of lame mutant characters, some of which are held in as high a regard as the original team members or the all-new, all-different 1970's team.
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 08 February 2006 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 12
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The idea of Secret Wars, let's get all the heroes and all the villains in a situation where they are forced to fight each other, seems neat and cool to a young comic reader. It definitely got me interested and I enjoyed the ride while it was developing, but in the end it was not worth it.
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Topic Closed)
