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Topic: Game Changings and turning points in John Byrne’s art Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Narciso Aksayam
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Joined: 29 November 2021
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Posted: 05 December 2021 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Hello.
I am writing from France, so please forgive me for my weak english language use, my typo and my weird formulations.
Also forgive me, please, for the lacks in my knowledge about John Byrne's every publications : in France not everything have been published, I have been importing from the USA each issue of Nextmen while it was in creation, and I managed to get some oldies, like Hulk, in pdf edition ; yet there are lots of missing elements in my collection.

My interest here aims on the style and technical changes that can be caught along John Byrne's career.
For example, one might have noticed the appearance of a new style of smiles on female faces which weren't present on the pages before She-Hulk, with a more important stress on dimples..
I think (but I didn't managed to put a date on this appearance) that we can also observe new kinds of yelling mouths (?) with more "ape-like" lips, but I guess it was a slow evolution in his drawing.
Most obvious is the use of what I guess is called "Duotone" in English (we say "Trames" in French), for OMAC and Namor the Sub-mariner.

I am interested in more technical details, especialy about inking technics.

The most proeminent question I try to answer concerns a changing that occurs during the ninth year (in the interrupted chronology I saw here on the forum). It seems to happen precisely during the FF miniserie in the Negative Zone.
I see something is happening with colors at that moment. And I think Glynis Wein makes a difference here, in comparision with the previous episodes of FF. (I have been told that Glynis Wein was colorist on the Galactus Epic unfinished serie, which was watercolored I think. But I have no certainty about that, because I do not own this story and only know it from images found on the Internet).
But what strikes me concerns the caracteristics of the line or of the stroke in the inking.
Something changes at that time. I call it "the alpha-flight line", because it concerns the  all inking of the saga, when Bob Wiacek doesn't do the inking.
it can easily be perceived in the 17th episode, when Logan comes to visit Heather at the hospital, because the remembrance introduces pages taken from Xmen which were inked by Terry Austin. the gap between the two styles of inking his easily catchable.

So I wonder if John Byrne has changed one of his tool at that time, for example going from brush to pen, or from rapidograph to isograph, or such tecnhical change in his daily routine ; or if it is due to another aspect of his work that I don't guess yet.

I will be glad for any tips on that topics, including about other periods where a major change can be observed in John Byrne's art.

Thank you all.




Edited by Narciso Aksayam on 05 December 2021 at 1:32pm
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Narciso Aksayam
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Joined: 29 November 2021
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Posted: 05 December 2021 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I hope the topic will not disapear this time while I make corrections. I am sorry, because I write very slowly in English, and sometimes my writings sink in digital void...
sorry for the disturbance.


Edited by Narciso Aksayam on 05 December 2021 at 8:44am
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 05 December 2021 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I think I understand what you mean, & yes, I agree there were phases in JB’s
art.
I even have a dim memory of an interview where he mentioned moving to
markers for his inking - & I think that matches the ‘Alpha Flight’ period you
mention. In my memory, I think this led to a thicker line in his inking.
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Athanasios Kollias
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Posted: 05 December 2021 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I rememebr JB mentioning at some point that his FF inks initially were influenced by Austin's in X-Men and he used markers etc, while drawing at larger pages.At some point, he abandoned the twice-up pages and after that he was introduced to some new quills and his inking style differed even more.
Then Alpha Flight started taking more time and he decided to have inkers to share the load (Wiacek and Ordway and some others from time to time)...
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Narciso Aksayam
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 4:50am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Thank you both.
That is exactly what I am about.
I never thought it could be a matter of paper size.
But you're right, the FF inking at the beginning seems nicely Terry-Austin-like. I am glad you point this out.

I hope to get more details about the markers, the quills, and now even paper and original drawing size.
A change of tool is always a great deal for any artist (I remember Coltrane abandoning tenor sax to soprano sax because of a wrong change of mouthpiece).

The reason for each changing of this kind and its consequences on the style is a passionating topic. There is sometimes interesting anecdote behind.

Another example, I think which is from back before the Doc Octopus FF episode, is the use of xerox for landscape and buildings. I found this trick excellent.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It was discussed in one the FF letter pages around that time (maybe one of the issues in the lows 260s?). Someone wrote in saying the art looks muddy. The 'editor' (which I assume was JB) responded saying that the art looked fine at full scale but something in the reduction process when it went to printing left the end result not as was intended.


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Narciso Aksayam
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Thank you, Peter Martin.

"Muddy" is part of what I like the most at that period. There is both fluidity and solidity in the line.
But I don't really bite at the printing explanation : it would have been a one and only shot.
Maybe the reader was pointing to something else.
I regret not having the ability to copy here some example.
Maybe next time.

Edited by Narciso Aksayam on 06 December 2021 at 12:37pm
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Jim Petersman
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

It's beyond my abilities to differentiate from artistic growth, changes in tools, or deliberate artistic choices for the most part, but I really felt that JB had a quantum leap in drawing faces in DOOMSDAY.1. Search for those threads for some examples I posted at the time. 
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply


 QUOTE:
But I don't really bite at the printing explanation : it would have been a one and only shot.
It was the thing Athanasios referenced -- JB was working at 'twice-up' and the standard was to work on 11" x 17" bristol board reducing to 6.625" on the printed page, which is a reduction of 1 and 3/4.

That increased reduction should, in theory, have made JB's work even more razor sharp when reduced, but for whatever reason -- presumably to do with the printers not being used to working with that -- it came out with details kind of blended into one mass in places.

For example look at this crop and compare between the original art and the printed:

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Narciso Aksayam
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I wasn't aware of this change in faces during Doomsday1, Jim Petersman. But you seem to be quite accurate on this.
I look forward for your samples, if possible.
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Narciso Aksayam
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

You are right, Peter Martin. Your pictures make this obvious.
And you know it was worst in France, because FF were published in Half the usual format. It sometimes was a real mush.
By that time, I think we couldn't do anythingelse than get used to it.
And, to be honnest, I kinda like the darker Galactus here, with his small eyes. But deep black has this effect on me that I prefer it rather than grey scale.

Yet, I think your sample comes from the Austin-like period that Athanasios Kollias Mentionned.
So it doesn't explain the durable change that I notice in the style of inking during the year Alpha flight began.

Sorry if I am not able to make my point more clear.
I feel like I can't express myself enough when talking in English.
So my words may sound blurry.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 06 December 2021 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

The panel shown is from Fantastic Four #256. Cover date July 1983.

Alpha Flight #1 has a cover date of August 1983, so this is just about the same time as Alpha Flight. Perhaps you refer to some inking change later in the year -- if you have any samples to illustrate the stylistic change that you are referring to it might help.
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