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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 06 December 2021 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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Specifically, regarding a change in tools, IIRC JB was using markers around this period on FF and may have switched to a Japanese brush-pen after. Once again, IIRC this may be mentioned in one of the FF letters pages.
I believe JB used a radiograph pen for his early FF issues. Then markers. Of course, the man himself would be your best source of information (Hi, JB!).
Here are some links to related threads in the past:
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 07 December 2021 at 12:07am | IP Logged | 2
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Peter Martin wrote:
It was the thing Athanasios referenced -- JB was working at 'twice-up' and the standard was to work on 11" x 17" bristol board reducing to 6.625" on the printed page, which is a reduction of 1 and 3/4.
That increased reduction should, in theory, have made JB's work even more razor sharp when reduced, but for whatever reason -- presumably to do with the printers not being used to working with that -- it came out with details kind of blended into one mass in places. |
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"Starting with FF #255, for a brief period Byrne worked at twice-up art size. Those super-large pages couldn't be shot by the engravers to create the print film. They had to be photostatted down at the Marvel offices and then the engraver shot the print film from the photostats. That additional duplication process and a few other technical/art/art reproduction issues are what appears to be the cause behind the poorer than usual reproduction, not shooting from pencils. When John went back to an 11 x 17" art size and the original pages could be shot by the engravers without the intermediary photostat reduction, everything reproduced like it had from #232-254 again."
So it was a lack of equipment compatible with the larger-sized artwork that caused the poor quality reproduction in these issues. The original comics and all subsequent reprints have been sourced from this multi-generation film. This past summer, Sedlmeier was preparing the issues in question for Masterworks reprinting, and was attempting to locate as much of the original art as possible, so the reprints could be sourced from that instead. I know he was able to locate copies of some (but not all) of the needed pages, so when the Masterwork comes out parts of those issues will look dramatically better than they ever have before.
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 07 December 2021 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 3
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Good info, Jason. Thanks! It is a bit of a revelation to look at some of the shots available online taken from the original art. So crisp.
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 08 December 2021 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 4
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Thank you, Peter Martin, for the links toward the forum.
I searched before inside the topics but I hadn't found these specific comments.
i feel sorry to raise questions which has already been somehow treated.
Right now, I am far away from my comics shelves, so it is difficult for me to rely only on my memory, expecially considering that issues have not the same numerotation in France for FF episodes :
As I told, I think the change that I am talking about happens during the miniserie in the Negative zone. Maybe it is more gradual than I assume, but I am pretty sure that the change is complete at the moment when the FF's costumes have turned dark.
So it seems that what Jason Czekleba points to, about the change of format in #255 could fit, and brings an answer. Even if I understand Alpha Flight pages were not in the same format, though the line appears to me of the same style.
I remember that John Byrne once said, in an interview with Mike Avila, that he has observed that his inking at some point turned to gain some Joe Kubert-like manner which satified him a lot (though it naturally evolved later to something else, his drawing moving forward to another step of evolution in his practive).
I wonder if anyone knows to what specific period he refers to when telling so. Maybe it is coincident with the period I am talking about (though he seems to say in the links above that is best period in inking was the one for Next men).
I recently discovered John Byrne has inked Ditko in 1984, for an Avengers annual 13. I hope I can get one day this issue. Maybe I will cross the Atlantic to get to New York sometimes.
I wish to find a fine adress where to buy oldies of that kind (maybe someone can point me to a good comics books shop).
I also wish I find some IDW original black and white edition, if not to expensive now...
I am now also eager to get back to my home to check my Next Men collection, since I read that some issues were inked with brush. I hope to be able to discern which one, if my eyes don't betray me.
These inquieries inside the variations of John Byrne's art and technic really enthral me.
Thanks a lot every one for the many trails you offer to me as beginnings of answers.
(And if anyone can recall the very first use of xerox for city landscapes, that would also interest me a lot).
Best.
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 08 December 2021 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 5
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I managed to make a deeper search in the Internet.
I found here what is credited to be on FF #252.
I would state that the kind of inking which I am talking about is already there.
it seems to me that John Byrne here has used markers. but I can't be sure, because I never have hold any original in my own hands.
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 08 December 2021 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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Sorry.
It seems that I failed to dowload the image I was talking about.
here is the link :
Maybe someone can publish it here with gifts I don't have.
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 08 December 2021 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 7
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Compared to a FF #250 page which I find here :
it seems to me that this one is darker, maybe with the use of brush for the black swaths (I am not sure swath is the right word, sorry).
What do you think ?
Edited by Narciso Aksayam on 10 December 2021 at 3:21pm
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 08 December 2021 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 8
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There's a limit to how wide images can be, so I can't upload the page anywhere near full size.
This is the image you linked to though:
This is a crop of the first panel (still not full size, but close):
(edited to correct a typo)
Edited by Peter Martin on 08 December 2021 at 2:27pm
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 10 December 2021 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 9
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Thx, Peter Martin, for having published the page.
I have edited my previous post about FF#250, and I think the feeling of going from a very dark inking to a lighter one is perceptible.
Nevertheless, I am back home, and I have been able to consult my shelves.
I appears to me that the explanation by the duplication technic of the engravers, reported by Athanasios Kollias and Jason Czeskleba fits pretty well with my sensation of the line changing.
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 10 December 2021 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | 10
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I would say that the change is completed here :Though the two previous episodes have many panels that can be categorized has having gained (reached ?) the specific line that caracterizes the beginnings of the Alpha Flight.So I guess you were right.I have now to see when it stops, if it does at the same time in the Alpha Flight.But I hope also to find the first xerox in John Byrne's art, and the period which coincides with what he call his Kubert-like manner.thank you all for your answers.
Edited by Narciso Aksayam on 11 December 2021 at 12:33am
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 11 December 2021 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 11
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I looked closer in my collections to find those panels.
I think there are the first uses of xerox to create scenery.
The two following come from the FF episode where Tyros comes back cosmicly loaded by DrDoom
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Narciso Aksayam
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| Posted: 11 December 2021 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 12
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This one comes from Alpha flight.
But I am not able to tell if it was published prior to the FF just above.
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